Thoughts on QB situation after Game 5?

[colbysullivan]

Coker transferred in, Ely was behind him on the depth chart initially.

Milroe has faced a lot of pressure as well, that's a big reason for instance why he didn't throw as many passes last game. There were pass plays, he just didn't have time to pass. Yet, somehow that's held against him while you're making excuses for someone else when it happens.

Guess what? It's still the same offensive line.

I was all for him getting a shot, he got a shot. He did not do well. If he got another shot against Ole Miss and played like that, Alabama would have two losses instead of one.

Yeah he was given a fair shot with the same offensive line that has had Milroe running for his life to. Do you think they gave him a different offensive line or something?

Some people are talking like this is Hurts vs. Tua but it isn't. It's Hurts vs Barnett. Barnett by the way was a better passer that year, and he like someone else I know had been on campus for two years, but Alabama played better with Hurts in and the fact is Hurts despite his flaws still gave Alabama a better chance to win.

The only way I can really rationalize some opinion's being expressed here is if people have convinced themselves Simpson played with a different offensive line. Then things start to make more sense, otherwise the results speak for themselves. When you (speaking generally) applaud ONE SINGLE DRIVE by a quarterback as a sign that he's the guy, and ignore the fact that the team played far better with other guy, it's just a fantasy world at that point.

You absolutely cannot compare Milroe to Hurts. Even with his flaws, Hurts in YEAR ONE was light years ahead of Milroe as a passer in year three…

 

[colbysullivan]

JM has been here 12 or 7 months less than TS. So, 26 or 31 mos. You make it sound like an eternity's difference when it is a year or less.

Umm what? Milroe is in year 3, Simpson is in year 2. But sure, an entire year more in the system doesn’t mean much…

Am I living in a bizzaro reality?

 

[colbysullivan]

Simpson would have been the guy had we gotten better execution by the OL despite the reasons for their poor play.

Given the unreliable play of the OL, Saban has made the decision to roll with Milroe until or if Milroe expands his game.

There still may be a window for Simpson later in the season but it will be based on better execution (and maturity) from the OL. I believe that he should be worked into the game plan if for nothing more to give opposing defenses more to prepare for.

If only our OL had protected Simpson half as much as our fans protect Milroe…

 

[Cruloc]

Anyone who thinks this is a replay of Jalen vs Tua is the one living in a fantasy world. JM is a better passer than JH was at that time, and improving much more quickly; and TS is not in the same universe with Tua in any way.

It was not as though Milroe blew Saban away, he wanted Simpson, or anyone, to take the bull by the horns but he could not do it. CNS was still unclear when the season began, that's why he gave TB who had moved ahead of a declining TS, an opportunity to show what they could do in the USF game. TB had an epic fail, and TS seemed to me to be overmatched at this point in his development, against the worst team on Alabama's schedule. MIlroe had not been demoted, but Saban wanted to compare the 3 QBs based on some live game action. The staff and/or Saban concluded that JM was the answer.

It appears that a handful in the fan base are fully invested in JM's failure based on their own amateur opinions (most everyone has voiced opinions that have been proven wrong time after time) alluding to ridiculous conspiracy theories based on rumor, appealing to local anonymous clowns primarily looking for clicks, to support their claim that coaches at the top of their profession historically should bow to their opinion. Any excuse to bash JM and exalt or excuse TS.

This is not just msg board discussion but has degenerated into an attack on a player whom the coaches have chosen. It has created a toxic environment. That attack rarely or never can recognize a thing JM does well, especially with regard to accuracy or the thinking parts of the game, or the real improvement that he has made. Their hero does only what is right and there is always an excuse for any "apparent" shortcoming. Just waiting on the national or at least local media to take this and run. They'll have a ball. Maybe it's already happening, idk.

I'd love for Milroe to be an absolute success and be in the running to win the Heisman. Id love for him to lead us to a title. The fact folks like you keep claiming others want him to fail is insulting....but I dont care. I stand by what I've said. Love for Milroe to prove me wrong.

 

[colbysullivan]

I'd love for Milroe to be an absolute success and be in the running to win the Heisman. Id love for him to lead us to a title. The fact folks like you keep claiming others want him to fail is insulting....but I dont care. I stand by what I've said. Love for Milroe to prove me wrong.

So many people are missing the point. NO ONE is saying Simpson is Tua. All we are saying is Milroe has proven who he is, but more importantly who he’s not. He will not throw the ball away, and he continually costs us points! Ty can make all the throws. Do we know for sure if Ty can win a title? No, but we know FOR SURE we will not win a title with Milroe.

 

[92tide]

No one is 100/100 on deep balls. He's made a number of impressive ones. Off the top of my head the TD to Hale while getting hit vs Ole Miss was fantastic. His TD to Burton vs Texas was also a good throw.

He's not the elite of the elite as a deep ball thrower but he's pretty good.

iirc, he threw that ball well before burton made his cut on that td throw

 

[BamaMoon]

I can understand some here but, come on man, you're better than this.

And you don't know the motives behind the relatively few number of passing attempts. I seriously doubt it was because of fear. Ironically,. with "Radar Milroe" we need to compare the number of completions because he hits almost all of his attempts.

Discounting the first 2 drives, like the 2nd half vs OM, the Alabama offense began to look like a good, efficient and legitimate SEC offense: the QB handing off to decent runners or running himself or dropping back to scan the field to hit mostly intermediate passes. Jalen Milroe led Alabama on 6 scoring drives in his next 7 possessions, 3 TDs and 3 FGs. Then he left the game. He had 2 sacks, one in which he was was plowed under by a good pass rush, the other, the only time in which he drifted to the right and ran OOB with a loss. He connected on 7 intermediate passes for explosive plays and 3 short passes or dump offs. His accuracy is very good: he was 10-12 164 yards, elite 13.7 ypa. He made good quick decisions for the most part on his 3 or 4 very effective runs.

His improvement has been startling. Against 2 SEC defenses the last 2 weeks, he is 27-33 82%, 389 yds, 11.8 ypa, 1 int. Can't ask for much more. He may crumble at some point, but at this point he is looking better and better each week to where vs MSU, he looked like an SEC QB. He has greatly reduced the number of times he engages in his maddening practice of rolling OOB short of the LOS or unnecessarily taking a sack.

Some Alabama fans seem so invested in his failure that they refuse to see what any objective observer can't help but notice and any Bama fan can't help but be encouraged by - that is very definite and remarkable improvement. Each week, often each half. The stakes are rising, the environments are becoming more hostile, and he might collapse at some point, however unlikely, but he is playing well and most importantly, better and better. Most Bama fans are pulling for him. That doesn't mean they can't see room for improvement but they can definitely see and point out the good encouraging signs.

Rewatch the game and focus on the good, forgetting the first 2 drives, as well as his overall weaknesses, for just a moment. You might be impressed and encouraged.

You seem to have put me in the category (as you said in other post) of rooting for JM to fail. I promise you I'm not rooting for JM's failure. After the first game I thought "hmmm, maybe this will work."

I'll agree I've seen some improvements but it's also like the offense takes 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Looks great one series and sputters the next.

I'm looking at the overall trajectory after 5 games. I still see more struggle than improvement.

I appreciate that you think "I'm better than this" but it's not personal I promise and I'm just judging what I see. The "amazing stats" don't jive with "an amazing offense." If we are running like a well-oiled machine at this point I'd be happy to say it.

So, I'm just giving my opinion and I think I'm usually pretty fair and try to keep away from the personality and look at the player.

BTW, I've admitted I was wrong about Jalen Hurts. I even said he'd never play a down in the NFL. But we know that story and all the chapters it took to get him there. We also remember how hard it was to struggle that season. I just don't want to see that again, but I promise I'm man enough to promise if it works out with Jalen Milroe at QB and we win the SEC or NC I'll be first in line at the "eat crow" table.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

I’ll add that I’d like for Jalen to prove me wrong overall and that I do credit him when he makes Quality throws…

This is from the 2nd Qtr vs State…

That was a decent pass.

That was on target as well

That was a NICE throw!!!

5/5 for 84 yards for the qtr and it was mostly medium and short throws.

Much better.

So I am paying attention to the Good.

But also I’m not going to bury my head about the warning signs that aren’t going away and the tendency to have about the same amount of really Bad plays every week as there are really good plays.

There were no ‘Disastrous’ plays this past week but they are coming back again soon unless a light switch comes on out of nowhere this week.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I applaud this post

View attachment 37169

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Did I claim that most QBs or any QBs are “100/100” on deep balls? No, I didn’t. That is ridiculous and you are building a straw man to knock down. I said that I hear about how he has an amazing deep ball, but I don’t really see that in practice. He has an arm, sure. Has has made a couple good deep throws. But I just think the hype about his amazing deep ball is just that, hype to explain away other deficiencies. I’d call it average. I don’t really have a problem with average deep balls. I just keep seeing people claim he has an amazing deep ball. I disagree. That’s all.

It's definitely above average for a college QB throwing deep. Id agree he's probably not quite the elite level but I think some of that is due to his other deficiencies.

Again I'd point to the TD to Hale. Very few college QBs can make that throw

 

[KrAzY3]

You absolutely cannot compare Milroe to Hurts. Even with his flaws, Hurts in YEAR ONE was light years ahead of Milroe as a passer in year three…

I spent a lot of time defending Hurts (people absolutely thought as poorly of him as they think of Milroe), and he had things that impeded his development and certainly had a lot of limitations as a passer, so much so that people were posting charts to underscore this.

And mind you, I feel very, very, very entitled to talk all I want about Hurts because I got so much crap from people here about him. Now that he's a Super Bowl QB the tune has changed, but I was told literally hundreds of times about how bad a passer he was.

Hurts year 1 starter was absolutely, positively treated like year one Milroe as a starter.

I've been here before. Same level of vitriol for Blake Sims and Jalen Hurts. They can't throw, they can't do this they can't do that. Wrong once, wrong twice, why not be wrong three times?

It's also absurd by the way (speaking generally) that Simpson is going to magically become much better if he just sees the field more, but it's impossible with Milroe for that to happen. In the same way Jalen Hurts, and I was told this many times by many people here, will never have what it takes to be an NFL QB.

Well... may be Milroe can develop as well?

 

[92tide]

It's definitely above average for a college QB throwing deep. Id agree he's probably not quite the elite level but I think some of that is due to his other deficiencies.

Again I'd point to the TD to Hale. Very few college QBs can make that throw

that pass to niblack that was a td but incorrectly got called out of bounds was a nice throw (and nicer catch).

 

[BamaInCummingGA]

Anyone who thinks this is a replay of Jalen vs Tua is the one living in a fantasy world. JM is a better passer than JH was at that time, and improving much more quickly; and TS is not in the same universe with Tua in any way.

It was not as though Milroe blew Saban away, he wanted Simpson, or anyone, to take the bull by the horns but he could not do it. CNS was still unclear when the season began, that's why he gave TB who had moved ahead of a declining TS, an opportunity to show what they could do in the USF game. TB had an epic fail, and TS seemed to me to be overmatched at this point in his development, against the worst team on Alabama's schedule. MIlroe had not been demoted, but Saban wanted to compare the 3 QBs based on some live game action. The staff and/or Saban concluded that JM was the answer.

It appears that a handful in the fan base are fully invested in JM's failure based on their own amateur opinions (most everyone has voiced opinions that have been proven wrong time after time) alluding to ridiculous conspiracy theories based on rumor, appealing to local anonymous clowns primarily looking for clicks, to support their claim that coaches at the top of their profession historically should bow to their opinion. Any excuse to bash JM and exalt or excuse TS.

This is not just msg board discussion but has degenerated into an attack on a player whom the coaches have chosen. It has created a toxic environment. That attack rarely or never can recognize a thing JM does well, especially with regard to accuracy or the thinking parts of the game, or the real improvement that he has made. Their hero does only what is right and there is always an excuse for any "apparent" shortcoming. Just waiting on the national or at least local media to take this and run. They'll have a ball. Maybe it's already happening, idk.

What games have you been watching?
Milroe cannot see the field. That is a fact.
Milroe cannot make quick decisions. That's a fact.
Milroe puts his receivers in bad situations at times with the placement of his throws.
Milroe is into his third season and did I mention.....HE CAN'T READ A DEFENSE.......

Now, I don't care who the QB is. I'm not lobbying for anyone. One way or another, Milroe just isn't a good qb and I don't think (and yes, this is just my opinion) he is going to just magically flip a switch and the flood light come on and he start burning it up.

I don't think others were given a fair shake whether it be because the team didn't want someone else or the coaches or whatever.

Whatever the case may be we're stuck with what we have.
For better or worse. I guess we'll find this part out as we get to better competition.......

 

[tusks_n_raider]

I spent a lot of time defending Hurts (people absolutely thought as poorly of him as they think of Milroe), and he had things that impeded his development and certainly had a lot of limitations as a passer, so much so that people were posting charts to underscore this.

And mind you, I feel very, very, very entitled to talk all I want about Hurts because I got so much crap from people here about him. Now that he's a Super Bowl QB the tune has changed, but I was told literally hundreds of times about how bad a passer he was.

Hurts year 1 starter was absolutely, positively treated like year one Milroe as a starter.

I've been here before. Same level of vitriol for Blake Sims and Jalen Hurts. They can't throw, they can't do this they can't do that. Wrong once, wrong twice, why not be wrong three times?

It's also absurd by the way (speaking generally) that Simpson is going to magically become much better if he just sees the field more, but it's impossible with Milroe for that to happen. In the same way Jalen Hurts, and I was told this many times by many people here, will never have what it takes to be an NFL QB.

Well... may be Milroe can develop as well?

Hey all I can say is there’s no vitriol from me in either situation.

I watch the games and rewatch the highlights and go back and watch individual plays and make my statements that I feel are objective and fair criticisms as well as compliments where warranted.

The criticisms a lot of us had about Jalen Hurts in 2017 were absolutely accurate at the time as far as his deficiencies and how Tua was the better option then and we were super right about that.

What we were wrong about and what I have owned up to several times is Jalen Hurts being an NFL starter.

But to his credit he worked his butt off to address everything he needed to improve on and did a lot of it behind the scenes as a backup after being benched. Enos helped him as well as did Riley at OU. But Jalen Hurts put in that work….He did obsessive work… Nick Saban level drive and obsession which is RARE.

Anyone can search my history too and see I never had a personal beef about him either and that I supported him and was a huge fan and followed him at OU and then to Philly. I freakin LOVE Jalen Hurts.

I really like Jalen Milroe the person too. He’s extremely likable and says all the right things when a mic is in front on him.

I was rooting for him in the off season and came away really impressed after Game 1 this year. I thought he might really be the guy.

But a LOT has happened since then including a LOT of really bad plays and decisions. Some just abysmal choices that led to horrific INT’s and multiple bad sacks. Tons of risky throws into double and triple coverage that were almost INT’s or had to be caught by circus catches.

Hurts as a True Freshman never threw a single INT that I remember even close to as bad as the 3 Milroe has thrown as a 3rd year player.

Hurts went through a period of being gun shy too but he usually escaped loss yardage tackles and sacks and got back to the LOS or better after he left the pocket. He sure didn’t put the ball in jeopardy either just slinging into area littered with traffic.

Bottom line is they might both be named Jalen but this ain’t an Apples to Apples comparison.

 

[KrAzY3]

The criticisms a lot of us had about Jalen Hurts in 2017 were absolutely accurate at the time as far as his deficiencies and how Tua was the better option then and we were super right about that.

What we were wrong about and what I have owned up to several times is Jalen Hurts being an NFL starter.

The concerns about Jalen Hurts did not begin in 2017, he received a lot of criticism in 2016 including some people openly wishing Barnett had been named the starter and speculating had that occurred he would have developed into a better quarterback (we now know better than that).

So, the context here is as I brought up before, that this isn't Hurts vs Tua, this is actually Hurts vs Barnett and there's a bit difference in terms of who the other guy is.

It's worth revisiting 2016 Hurts because he was SEC player of the year and came within a single defensive stop of winning a national championship.

He threw 23 TD and 9 INTs. His completion percentage was 62.8. He averaged 7.3 yards per and his rating was 139.

Milroe is 6 TDs and 3 INTs (not a radically different ratio) with a 69.2 completion percentage, an average of 10.7 and a rating of 177.2. The biggest difference is Milroe has been sacked 15 times and Hurts was only sacked 19 times all season, but as the Simpson supporters noted, the offensive line isn't doing a good job of protection so that suggests Milroe is working under more adverse circumstance.

Along those lines, Hurts had Ridley and OJ Howard to throw to, so he not only had better protection but better players to pass to.

 

[BamaMoon]

The criticisms a lot of us had about Jalen Hurts in 2017 were absolutely accurate at the time as far as his deficiencies and how Tua was the better option then and we were super right about that.

Excellent observation.

Just because it eventually worked out with Hurts being where he is now doesn't mean it wasn't fair to judge his play then when it was lacking.

I think it's fair with JM too. It's nothing personal, as I know you will agree. It's just about football.

 

[mlh]

For whatever reason, it's live or die with Milroe.
Milroe is not Hurts.
Simpson is not McElroy or AJ or Coker. Certainly not Tua or Bryce.
We don't have Julio or Amari or Ridley or the amazing roster of Ruggs, Jeudy, Smith, and Waddle.
This will be an interesting season...perhaps Saban's best coaching job ever...

I'm not sure where I'm going with this...but I love bacon...

 

[Tidewater]

In great deference to “the Pirate” how many national titles has he won? How many head to head games has he won against Alabama or any major power? How many number one classes has he recruited. Heck how many major bowls has he been head coach in and won?

He is a great guy and wonderful with the one liners. I miss him, however a great evaluator of talent he is not. Frank Howard had good one liners too. I will leave you too google.

My favorite memory was at the end of a Miss State bowl game (against Tulsa, if memory serves), a team-vs-team brawl broke out on the field and Leach was in the stands taking selfies with fans. Classic Leach.

 

[Carollovestide]

Speaking of holding on to the ball ….. Tua had that habit and if I remember correctly it was the Mississippi State game that ended with him getting his hip crushed because he held on to the ball too long !!!!! I may be mistaken but He really shouldn’t have even been in the game at that point . And like someone already pointed out Bryce had a habit of holding on to the ball
and that led to his injury last year . Ya know, I’m certainly no expert but I’m rooting for Jalen …. If Coach has faith in him then who and I to second guess his decision . I really do believe the young man has potential ….. to bad we are having to watch it unfold as the season progresses ….. hell it could be worse , he could be going backwards but I think he’s been moving forward and I pray he continues to improve !!! Roll Tide !

 

[tusks_n_raider]

The concerns about Jalen Hurts did not begin in 2017, he received a lot of criticism in 2016 including some people openly wishing Barnett had been named the starter and speculating had that occurred he would have developed into a better quarterback (we now know better than that).

So, the context here is as I brought up before, that this isn't Hurts vs Tua, this is actually Hurts vs Barnett and there's a bit difference in terms of who the other guy is.

It's worth revisiting 2016 Hurts because he was SEC player of the year and came within a single defensive stop of winning a national championship.

He threw 23 TD and 9 INTs. His completion percentage was 62.8. He averaged 7.3 yards per and his rating was 139.

Milroe is 6 TDs and 3 INTs (not a radically different ratio) with a 69.2 completion percentage, an average of 10.7 and a rating of 177.2. The biggest difference is Milroe has been sacked 15 times and Hurts was only sacked 19 times all season, but as the Simpson supporters noted, the offensive line isn't doing a good job of protection so that suggests Milroe is working under more adverse circumstance.

Along those lines, Hurts had Ridley and OJ Howard to throw to, so he not only had better protection but better players to pass to.

I missed where you meant 2016 Jalen Hurts.

For the record though that wasn’t me. As I was 100% behind Jalen that season and blown away by how unflappable he was as a TR Fresh.

I thought you meant 2017 because you defended him heavily that year over Tua and I know we had some back and forth discussions about that too.

Milroe’s comp% is overinflated right now because he’s eating Bad sacks instead of throwing the ball away that would register as incomplete.

I mean it could hypothetically be 90% on a small sample but I don’t care because it doesn’t tell the whole story.

His YPA is higher because he gets a lot of yardage in chunks via the Deep Pass… which I credit as very good…He at times throws a Beautiful deep ball.

Jalen Hurts didn’t really have a Deep Ball until OU so most of his stuff was short to med and lowered his YPA.

But again you are comparing a TRUE FRESHMAN Hurts with less than a year in school vs a 3rd Year Milroe who had some pretty meaningful experience as a Soph.

I’m kind of getting weary going over it all to be honest.

We see different things I guess. It’s fine.

I just want to be clear that I’m shouldn’t really be lumped into the ‘haters’ column of folks that you seem irritated with.

I feel I’m being objective based on what I’m seeing on the field.