Alabama QBs in 2024, II

[davefrat]

A running QB CAN BE a big threat.

I won't sit here and type JM's legs aren't a threat. But the kind of running threat 100% of coaches want is from the kind of QB who can also stand in the pocket and deliver the ball to even faster wide receivers.

Last time I checked a decent QB can throw the ball and it will go faster than even the fastest QB can run.

JM's goal should be to become like Jalen Hurts OR Lamar Jackson; guys with wheels but guys who have learned to be a passing QB first.

That may be how JM already sees himself, but until he can prove he's a real drop back threat, he's just a fast guy who plays the QB position.

I would guess that most upper-level college QBs hope to become NFL MVP caliber players.

 

[mlh]

And 2024!

I think TS will ultimately win the starting job in '24, but there will be a learning curve in adopting CKD's offense. That should not be a factor in '25 and '26 and TS should really shine.

 

[Power Eye]

JM's goal should be to become like Jalen Hurts OR Lamar Jackson; guys with wheels but guys who have learned to be a passing QB first.

Interesting comparison to Hurts and Jackson. Two guys who were definitely not natural pocket passers and not necessarily pass first QBs, particularly in their first season or so of being starting quarterbacks in college. Hurts didn't look comfortable in the pocket as a starter until he got to Oklahoma. Yes, I recognize in 2018 he looked much better but he was not a starter. Jackson, whose college completion % was under 60%, didn't become a true pass first QB until his 2nd or 3rd year in the NFL.

The point is that it's unreasonable to think that Milroe was going to to be a great pocket QB last year, and he definitely wasn't, but it doesn't mean he won't get much better at it. I don't think O'Brien did much, if any, development with him, and Rees only had a year with him. Now he has a year of starting under his belt, and some of the best offensive coaching in the game teaching him.

On a side note, I started watching the 2023 season and I'm through the A&M game. McLaughlin's snapping was really bad. Every week there were multiple snapping problems, and not just errant snaps, but hesitations with snapping as well. I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but that's just one more thing that Milroe had to think about.

 

[HighlandOak]

Interesting comparison to Hurts and Jackson. Two guys who were definitely not natural pocket passers and not necessarily pass first QBs, particularly in their first season or so of being starting quarterbacks in college. Hurts didn't look comfortable in the pocket as a starter until he got to Oklahoma. Yes, I recognize in 2018 he looked much better but he was not a starter. Jackson, whose college completion % was under 60%, didn't become a true pass first QB until his 2nd or 3rd year in the NFL.

The point is that it's unreasonable to think that Milroe was going to to be a great pocket QB last year, and he definitely wasn't, but it doesn't mean he won't get much better at it. I don't think O'Brien did much, if any, development with him, and Rees only had a year with him. Now he has a year of starting under his belt, and some of the best offensive coaching in the game teaching him.

On a side note, I started watching the 2023 season and I'm through the A&M game. McLaughlin's snapping was really bad. Every week there were multiple snapping problems, and not just errant snaps, but hesitations with snapping as well. I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but that's just one more thing that Milroe had to think about.

Didn't he (Seth) have to make multiple adjustments at the LOS to compensate for Milroe on most every snap?

 

[Power Eye]

Didn't he (Seth) have to make multiple adjustments at the LOS to compensate for Milroe on most every snap?

I don't know the answer to that, but even so, I don't know that it explains the physical process of snapping the ball. I do know that it was discussed by both Saban and during the broadcasts that McLaughlin had a hard time hearing the claps from Milroe. Though, I don't know that it was specific to Milroe because there were issues with Simpson as well.

 

[BamaMoon]

Interesting comparison to Hurts and Jackson. Two guys who were definitely not natural pocket passers and not necessarily pass first QBs, particularly in their first season or so of being starting quarterbacks in college. Hurts didn't look comfortable in the pocket as a starter until he got to Oklahoma. Yes, I recognize in 2018 he looked much better but he was not a starter. Jackson, whose college completion % was under 60%, didn't become a true pass first QB until his 2nd or 3rd year in the NFL.

The point is that it's unreasonable to think that Milroe was going to to be a great pocket QB last year, and he definitely wasn't, but it doesn't mean he won't get much better at it. I don't think O'Brien did much, if any, development with him, and Rees only had a year with him. Now he has a year of starting under his belt, and some of the best offensive coaching in the game teaching him.

On a side note, I started watching the 2023 season and I'm through the A&M game. McLaughlin's snapping was really bad. Every week there were multiple snapping problems, and not just errant snaps, but hesitations with snapping as well. I know this has been discussed ad nauseam, but that's just one more thing that Milroe had to think about.

Having a goal to be a passer like Hurts or Jackson for someone who can run as well as JM does is a reasonable goal. None of them will ever stand in the pocket like Brady did and dissect defenses to the 3rd of 4th read.

But at some higher level JM has to learn to read and react and do so much quicker and deeper (past 1 read).

I think he needs to do that to succeed at Bama much less in the NFL.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Didn't he (Seth) have to make multiple adjustments at the LOS to compensate for Milroe on most every snap?

Even if this is true it is common in college football for QBs to not be the one making line checks. Especially the first year starting.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I think Milroe reaching Hurts level would be big. I don't think he'll ever be Lamar as a runner or as a passer but I've been wrong plenty of times. Lamar is 1 of 1. Future NFL Hall of Famer

 

[Power Eye]

Having a goal to be a passer like Hurts or Jackson for someone who can run as well as JM does is a reasonable goal. None of them will ever stand in the pocket like Brady did and dissect defenses to the 3rd of 4th read.

But at some higher level JM has to learn to read and react and do so much quicker and deeper (past 1 read).

I think he needs to do that to succeed at Bama much less in the NFL.

Agree completely. My point is that it took those guys some time to get comfortable being a passing QB.

 

[B1GTide]

Agree completely. My point is that it took those guys some time to get comfortable being a passing QB.

Jackson was a great passer in college, pretty much the entire time.

 

[Power Eye]

I think Milroe reaching Hurts level would be big. I don't think he'll ever be Lamar as a runner or as a passer but I've been wrong plenty of times. Lamar is 1 of 1. Future NFL Hall of Famer

I can't think of anyone at Lamar's level as a runner other than Vick, who probably would have had a similar career if not for his atrocities. Their styles of play were almost identical.

If MIlroe can be as competent as a passer and decision maker as Hurts was in the 2nd half of his collegiate career, which I don't think is that big of a leap, then we will have a great season this year.

 

[davefrat]

Didn't he (Seth) have to make multiple adjustments at the LOS to compensate for Milroe on most every snap?

What kind of adjustments?

 

[davefrat]

I can't think of anyone at Lamar's level as a runner other than Vick, who probably would have had a similar career if not for his atrocities. Their styles of play were almost identical.

If MIlroe can be as competent as a passer and decision maker as Hurts was in the 2nd half of his collegiate career, which I don't think is that big of a leap, then we will have a great season this year.

Vik threw one of the most beautiful spirals I've ever seen.

 

[Tidewater]

A running QB CAN BE a big threat.

I won't sit here and type JM's legs aren't a threat. But the kind of running threat 100% of coaches want is from the kind of QB who can also stand in the pocket and deliver the ball to even faster wide receivers.

Last time I checked a decent QB can throw the ball and it will go faster than even the fastest QB can run.

JM's goal should be to become like Jalen Hurts OR Lamar Jackson; guys with wheels but guys who have learned to be a passing QB first.

That may be how JM already sees himself, but until he can prove he's a real drop back threat, he's just a fast guy who plays the QB position.

I agree with all you wrote.
There is a differential between the damage a QB can do with his arm and his legs. With a guy like Brady, it was heavily slanted to his arm. Yeah he could scramble for a first down on the odd occasion, but man he was scary with his arm (and his brain).
With JM, it is much more balanced. He can hurt you with his arm, but he can also kill you with his legs.
Football game planning is a dance between the OC and the opposing DC. If JM was doing one read on a pass play and then taking off running and picking up big yardage and key first downs, DCs would adjust to that, maybe emphasizing rush lane discipline and playing more zone on the back end so all the DBs are facing the QB.
I just think JM seemed really reluctant/slow to pull the ball down and run with it (even on plays when that was the right call) and I believe he is really scary running the ball, especially if he makes a quick decision.

Again, I'm not a coach and I trust CKD to coach those guys.

 

[davefrat]

I agree with all you wrote.
There is a differential between the damage a QB can do with his arm and his legs. With a guy like Brady, it was heavily slanted to his arm. Yeah he could scramble for a first down on the odd occasion, but man he was scary with his arm (and his brain).
With JM, it is much more balanced. He can hurt you with his arm, but he can also kill you with his legs.
Football game planning is a dance between the OC and the opposing DC. If JM was doing one read on a pass play and then taking off running and picking up big yardage and key first downs, DCs would adjust to that, maybe emphasizing rush lane discipline and playing more zone on the back end so all the DBs are facing the QB.
I just think JM seemed really reluctant/slow to pull the ball down and run with it (even on plays when that was the right call) and I believe he is really scary running the ball, especially if he makes a quick decision.

Again, I'm not a coach and I trust CKD to coach those guys.

If he can improve to the point that he’s making only two reads rather than one or none he will be way harder to defend.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

The thing Brady did well is he was almost never caught in a bad play. He always knew what the defense was doing, knew how to beat it and would make sure the play called would defeat that defense.

The benefit of having a running QB is that even if he is caught in a bad play he can make something happen. Especially in college where no QBs are anywhere close to being able to do what Brady could with changing plays at the line.

 

[Ledsteplin]

A running QB CAN BE a big threat.

I won't sit here and type JM's legs aren't a threat. But the kind of running threat 100% of coaches want is from the kind of QB who can also stand in the pocket and deliver the ball to even faster wide receivers.

Last time I checked a decent QB can throw the ball and it will go faster than even the fastest QB can run.

JM's goal should be to become like Jalen Hurts OR Lamar Jackson; guys with wheels but guys who have learned to be a passing QB first.

That may be how JM already sees himself, but until he can prove he's a real drop back threat, he's just a fast guy who plays the QB position.

Jalen Milroe 2023 passing stats

2,834 yards, 187 of 284 for 65.8% completion. 23 touchdowns, 6 ints, yds/att - 10, long - 79 yards.

Jake Coker 2015 passing stats

3,110 yards, 263 of 393 for 66.9% completion. 21 touchdowns, 8 ints
Yds/att - 7.9,

 

[irvingtontide]

Jalen Milroe 2023 passing stats

2,834 yards, 187 of 284 for 65.8% completion. 23 touchdowns, 6 ints, yds/att - 10, long - 79 yards.

Jake Coker 2015 passing stats

3,110 yards, 263 of 393 for 66.9% completion. 21 touchdowns, 8 ints
Yds/att - 7.9,

Yet Jalen almost had double the sacks and I guarantee if anyone wanted to commit the time to it that Coker had more throw aways. You forgot Coker’s longest play was 81 yards also.

The stats aren’t completely a full story either. While milroes completion percentage looks good. He took a lot of sack that he could’ve threw the ball away on and couldn’t find a lot of open receivers that killed drives.

The defense carried the team last year. If Bryce young would have had that defense for his two years starting Georgia doesn’t go back to back and most likely it’s still been 50 something years since they’ve won one.

 

[BamaMoon]

Jalen Milroe 2023 passing stats

2,834 yards, 187 of 284 for 65.8% completion. 23 touchdowns, 6 ints, yds/att - 10, long - 79 yards.

Jake Coker 2015 passing stats

3,110 yards, 263 of 393 for 66.9% completion. 21 touchdowns, 8 ints
Yds/att - 7.9,

I know you like Jalen more than most.

But comparing him to Jake Coker, a player everybody remembers fondly, isn't gonna help the argument.

Compare him to Tua, Mac or Bryce and, well, the differences are massive.

This is not to say I'm not pulling for JM's improvement, but your comparison does more damage than helping pimp your guy.

And Jake got the ring.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

The problem with comparing stats of Coker and Milroe is in their respective situations one was good enough to win a NC and the other wasn't. Cokers stats both good and bad resulted in a title, Milroes didn't. That's why you can't compare seasons from 10 years ago.