Braves end first preseason game in tie (due to new rule)

[Tide&True]

Not sure I’m going to like this…

Batter clock violation ends Braves-Red Sox game - ESPN Video

With the bases loaded and a 3-2 count in a game tied at 6, the Braves' Cal Conley strikes out after not getting in the box in time.

www.espn.com

 

[DzynKingRTR]

They just keep making baseball worse

 

[ReturnToGlory]

To shorten the games, let's just play 7 innings. (blue font).

 

[Tidewater]

I guess it is better to learn this new stuff in preseason.

 

[Padreruf]

I would have thought a warning might have been given...but all in all, that's the best place to learn about it...I'm guessing the umpire had dinner plans...

 

[Tidewater]

I would have thought a warning might have been given...but all in all, that's the best place to learn about it...I'm guessing the umpire had dinner plans...

I'n not a huge baseball fan, but I would think the pitcher should be allowed to pitch when the pitcher is ready. If the batter is out of the box scratching his backside, tough.
I would think that the time should be "you may pitch after 30 seconds, but you must pitch within 45 or the pitch is counted as a ball.
I have to admit that I am not aware of what the new rule is.
An arrangement like that would tell the batter, you have 30 seconds to scratch your backside and be ready for the next pitch.

 

[Padreruf]

I'n not a huge baseball fan, but I would think the pitcher should be allowed to pitch when the pitcher is ready. If the batter is out of the box scratching his backside, tough.
I would think that the time should be "you may pitch after 30 seconds, but you must pitch within 45 or the pitch is counted as a ball.
I have to admit that I am not aware of what the new rule is.
An arrangement like that would tell the batter, you have 30 seconds to scratch your backside and be ready for the next pitch.

The batter has to be in the box with head up and looking at the pitcher before the pitch clock gets to 8. If he is not then it is an automatic strike. The ump called it right...crazy rule but that's the rule.

 

[Tide&True]

I’m afraid baseball is going the way of football….an over officiated mess!

 

[Tidewater]

The batter has to be in the box with head up and looking at the pitcher before the pitch clock gets to 8. If he is not then it is an automatic strike. The ump called it right...crazy rule but that's the rule.

That makes sense. If a batter is in the box and not paying attention to the pitcher, and the pitcher, trying to sneak one in, has a wild pitch, the batter could get beaned in the head.
Anyway, players (pitchers and batters) did this to themselves by taking too long to get a pitch thrown.

 

[DrJJoyner]

Anyway, players (pitchers and batters) did this to themselves by taking too long to get a pitch thrown.

Yup. Ultimately, it's an entertainment product and it's not entertaining to watch people wander around, scratch themselves, tug on their gloves, and whatnot. You only get to bat 4 or 5 times a game. Get on with it.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

It sure as hell seems to me that "we have to shorten the games" is in direct contradiction to "let's get rid of the shift, which increases the likelihood of an out and SPEEDS UP THE GAME" along with "let's add the DH to the National League so we can turn virtual automatic outs into bringing up guys capable of hitting 9th inning game-tying home runs.

Although I'm generally a traditionalist at baseball, I'm not instinctively against every proposal. While I don't like the DH, it DOES have an upside to it. But this????

You know, if I wanted to watch a sport with a clock, the NBA and NHL play at the same time as baseball does from March through mid-June.

 

[DrJJoyner]

It sure as hell seems to me that "we have to shorten the games" is in direct contradiction to "let's get rid of the shift, which increases the likelihood of an out and SPEEDS UP THE GAME" along with "let's add the DH to the National League so we can turn virtual automatic outs into bringing up guys capable of hitting 9th inning game-tying home runs.

While I was a 1st pitch to last out viewer during the Braves' 1990s heyday, I'm at best a casual fan these days. But I think what's happening is a sense by the Powers That Be that baseball as constructed just isn't exciting enough for the modern fan. In the olden days, it was a "pastime" with little competition. Now, there are 500 streaming channels, the Internet, and all manner of other diversions competing for the attention of young fans.

So, yes, they'd like to speed up the game. Mostly, though, they want to make the game more exciting.

The shift is great strategy and appeals to those who enjoy the game as a chess match between managers and think a 12-inning game that ends 1-0 is the epitome of competition. But more casual fans would rather see a 9-8 pinball game with runners constantly on base.

Watching pitchers not named Shohei Ohtani try to hit---or get pulled for a pinch hitter while they still have plenty of juice left in their throwing arm---is boring to the casual fan. So, having a hitting specialist who's past his prime as a defenseman in there instead is exciting.

Watching guys spend two minutes adjusting their equipment between swings is boring. So, rules to make them stand in there and hit are added.

It's all about putting on a better entertainment product. Hopefully, they can tinker with the game in such a way as to do that without destroying what made the game popular for 150 years. I know they tried this out in the minors first, so presumably they knew how it'll work out.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

Sorry, @DrJJoyner , the extreme shifts is not what made baseball popular for 150 years. Back in the 90s, it was very rare to see shifts like we have seen the past 5+ years. I am all in favor of that rule, a SS or 2B should not be playing as a 4th outfielder to record an easy out at first when, for most of that 150 years history, it would have been a base hit.

I love baseball, it's my favorite sport and I love those 1-0 pitching duels and the old NL chess matches. But the extreme shifts were making the game boring even for me.

I'm still not sure what I think about the pitch clock and the new pickoff rules. I'm definitely sick and tired of seeing every single batter step out of the box and adjust every piece of equipment they are wearing in between each pitch. It has gone way overboard and the players brought this one on themselves. Go back and watch 90s Braves games, this junk didn't happen anywhere close to what these modern day batters are doing.

Pickoffs, we'll see. Teams do not attempt steals anywhere near as much as they have in the past. Steals use to be a huge part of the game a big threat. So if it brings more steal attempts back into the game, I'll love it. Except recent Braves catchers seem to suck at throwing guys out so, maybe not.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

While I was a 1st pitch to last out viewer during the Braves' 1990s heyday, I'm at best a casual fan these days. But I think what's happening is a sense by the Powers That Be that baseball as constructed just isn't exciting enough for the modern fan. In the olden days, it was a "pastime" with little competition. Now, there are 500 streaming channels, the Internet, and all manner of other diversions competing for the attention of young fans.

The part I simply can't follow is, "To hell with the fans who have been watching for 10, 20, 30 years, let's do something that won't add 100 viewers nationwide."

NASCAR blew both feet off pursuing this stupid "casual fan" strategy.

I can explain VERY QUICKLY what would improve the meaning of games - but they aren't going to listen. You're going to have to bring back "do-or-die" pennant races or at least the option of it occurring. You noted following the Braves when? In the 90s?

What did the early 90s have? PENNANT RACES!!!

The reason the 1991 Braves were so exciting is because EVERY SINGLE NIGHT from August 1 onward was do or die, no points for second place. When that drama is involved, you lose all track of how long the game is. It's the American way, one team stands a winner, the other is knocked out and (at best) applauded for their valor.

What we have now is "why should I even tune in the regular season when all that really matters is finishing close enough to make the playoffs?"

So, yes, they'd like to speed up the game. Mostly, though, they want to make the game more exciting.

Pennant. Races.

The shift is great strategy and appeals to those who enjoy the game as a chess match between managers and think a 12-inning game that ends 1-0 is the epitome of competition. But more casual fans would rather see a 9-8 pinball game with runners constantly on base.

That's a false dichotomy, though. You can have a GOOD 1-0 game and a BAD 9-8 game...and vice versa. Super Bowl V was the closest final score in the first 24 Super Bowls, a field goal on the last play of the game...and one of the most horrid games in NFL history.

Maddux and Mike Morgan pitched a 1-0 gem on August 20, 1995 that was one of the most exciting games I ever saw (Braves-Cards). Maddux went the distance and gave up 2 hits and Morgan - who went to the same school and Maddux idolized as a kid - pitched outstanding but lost when Grissom doubled leading off an early inning and scored without a hit.

Watching pitchers not named Shohei Ohtani try to hit---or get pulled for a pinch hitter while they still have plenty of juice left in their throwing arm---is boring to the casual fan.

You mean the very same casual fan complaining about how long the games are?
That fan wants more hits and thus longer games?

So, having a hitting specialist who's past his prime as a defenseman in there instead is exciting.

If it's so exciting then why are people complaining about how long the games are?

This is where everyone - no offense intended towards you - loses me in this whole argument. It's no different than the college fans who out of one side of their mouths complain about Alabama's schedule and then turn right around and IN THE SAME BREATH say a team that didn't play anyone half as good as the worst team on Alabama's schedule "deserves a chance to show they're worthy."

I can't follow such logic because it's not founded on logic, it's founded on "I like to see scrappy underdogs win championships because Mommy didn't breastfeed me, and I think that kind of stuff actually happens in the real world!"

Watching guys spend two minutes adjusting their equipment between swings is boring. So, rules to make them stand in there and hit are added.

Eject the guy.
Call him out.
Problem solved.

Baseball once had a problem with wild bean brawls but for the most part those have gone because it's not worth slapping a pitcher with an open hand and missing five games. Hitters can stand right on the plate because it's the pitcher going to be in trouble now.

It's all about putting on a better entertainment product. Hopefully, they can tinker with the game in such a way as to do that without destroying what made the game popular for 150 years. I know they tried this out in the minors first, so presumably they knew how it'll work out.

Again, I'm not reflexively against any proposal.

Don't like the shift? Hit around it.

As much as I hate the "start a runner on 2nd," I'm minimally okay with it for the regular season - just so long as you keep the "three batter minimum" rule (I think that's not unreasonable, too).

But a pitch clock in a baseball game is just plain absurd.

How about going back to 45 seconds between half innings and upping the ad charges? THAT is what has added all the time to the ballgames. The ads due to TV money has added over 29 minutes to every single telecast.

Hmmm...

AVERAGE TIME MLB GAME
1970 - 2:30
2022 - 3:03

Bear in mind that in 1970, there was:
- not really relief specialty pitching
- no DH
- no stops for replays
- very little stepping out of the box (Mike Hargrove was called "the Human Rain Delay" in 1974; nobody would notice him today).

TV added 29.75 of those minutes.
All of the addendums and stepping out of the box has only added less than 4 minutes to the game in over half a century.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

I will never understand the obsession with shortening the game. College football and NFL games last longer than the average MLB games and nobody whines about those lengths (not as much as baseball).

I love everything you said @selmaborntidefan but, we disagree about the shift rule. I like it. I get the "hit around it" argument but, it's not like that is easy. Hitters have always had tendancies, through out baseball's history and not every hitter is good at hitting all fields. IMO, the extreme shifts were just against the spirit of the game.

 

[DrJJoyner]

The part I simply can't follow is, "To hell with the fans who have been watching for 10, 20, 30 years, let's do something that won't add 100 viewers nationwide."

I get it. MLB isn't really doing that poorly and the NASCAR analogy is an apt one.

I think the sport's leadership sees that it has gone, in living memory, from being The National Pastime to a comparatively minor sport. The NFL is king, so much so that the Combine, Draft, and various non-game events routinely outdraw MLB games. A random Thursday Night Football game between the Jaguars and Ravens, two teams that didn't exist 30 years ago, is going to outdraw MLB playoff games.

They're behind college football, college basketball, and the NBA, too. Heck, they might be behind English Premier League before long with the younger generation.

The NFL, despite its dominance, constantly tweaks the rules to get more excitement into the games. So, MLB is trying to do the same. Will it work? I kind of doubt it.

The reason the 1991 Braves were so exciting is because EVERY SINGLE NIGHT from August 1 onward was do or die, no points for second place.

Yes, it was glorious. But maybe not if you weren't a Braves or Giants fan.

We're very much in that boat with college football. There's something very exciting--or crushing---about a Kick 6 potentially ruining your season. That play would still hurt in today's game but we lost the Iron Bowl in 2017 only to have it ultimately redeemed by 2nd and 26.

At the same time, I would have liked a 12-game playoff this season to see if a team with a healthy Bryce Young could have put four good games in a row together to win the whole thing.

Yes, every regular season game is diluted somewhat for the top teams. But more teams' fans continue to have a stake in the game longer with a playoff system.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

What makes me laugh in all this is that the MLB is desperately trying to attract more viewers but makes it so hard to watch the sport with the ridiculous blackout rules. Then Bally sports goes and gets greedy and booted from every streaming option except the most expensive one or you have to remain tied to traditional cable. Now MLB Network gets removed from YTTV. I've just never seen a sport that needs more viewers but, then turns around and makes it so hard to legally watch.

 

[CrimsonTheory]

I LOL so hard about how that game ended, but the thought of a regular season game (playoff game will never end that way, imo) ends that way, does concern me.

With that said, I do love the new rules. They are design to keep the action flowing smoothly, because let's face it there was too many dead times during the game, epsecially when certain pitchers (like Trachesel back in the day and Pedro Baez currently) take too long to pitch, or guys like Nomar have to do their substitution after every pitch.

Despite my love for the new rules (and it will make baseball better, or at least more enjoyable to watch, imo) there are some bugs that needs to be worked out, which is why Spring Training is all about.

 

[DrJJoyner]

What makes me laugh in all this is that the MLB is desperately trying to attract more viewers but makes it so hard to watch the sport with the ridiculous blackout rules. Then Bally sports goes and gets greedy and booted from every streaming option except the most expensive one or you have to remain tied to traditional cable. Now MLB Network gets removed from YTTV. I've just never seen a sport that needs more viewers but, then turns around and makes it so hard to legally watch.

I went from a 1st pitch to last out viewer of the Braves to a casual fan largely because of MLB's stupidity on this front.

In the Good Old Days, every Braves game was on SuperStation TBS for anyone across the land who had a cable subscription to see. Then, MLB got greedy and decided that TBS and WGN (which did the same for Cubs and White Sox games) counted as "national" networks whose revenues had to be shared with other teams. Naturally, this caused owners to move their games off of free "national" channels and onto various regional sports networks like Turner Sports, Fox Sports South, etc. This made it harder to watch but I was dedicated enough to keep up with it. (This was before the days of Google, so it was harder than it sounds.) To make it even sillier, things like the YES Network counted as "local," despite their massive reach.

When I moved to the DC area in 2002, it was next to impossible to watch Braves games. It would have required a fairly substantial out-of-pocket expense to figure out how to subscribe to out-of-region RSNs if it was even possible in those days. So, I went from watching every pitch to catching the occasional game and my interest gradually fading.

I got married and had kids not long after that, which probably made it a moot point, as it would have been really hard to watch 162 regular season games a year. Still, just a dumb move by MLB from which they still haven't recovered.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

I watched and/or read somewhere that the goal is to get the game time and pace as it was "during the 70's", which apparently was a time when baseball games moved quicker. MLB Network, when discussing this on air (last year) used several games from the 70's side by side with games from "today" to show what's contributing to the longer games.

Imo, the length of games isn't necessarily the problem but the lack of play during the game. I think the game has become too homogenous with regard to the types of players MLB teams are wanting. Without getting into the weeds and making a post the size of the old testament. I'll just say we are in a time of 96+ mph power pitchers, pitching to batters who have been taught it is better to strikeout than hit the ball on the ground, batting average doesn't matter, and it is "better" to try to lift the ball aka "increased launch angles" and striking out is no big deal. You add the above to players who literally walk on and off the field, batters who require 10-15 seconds between pitches, and pitchers who are in ZERO hurry to throw the next pitch, and you have the game we have today.