Question: Common man doesn’t understand huge contracts that eat up salary space

[B1GTide]

But I think Brady wants two difficult things: A super Bowl and to play until 45, the latter is the most achievable because he is a very healthy guy that doesn't take needless hits, but the former would require a team in need of just one piece.

The former also requires that Brady be the old Brady. He will never be that guy again. His receivers did not make him look bad this year - he did. His passes were not even close.

 

[B1GTide]

The same argument was used with Manning and Montana but both elevated teams beyond what they were capable.

Sorry - that is wrong. Manning won the SB as the lowest rated QB in the NFL that year with the Broncos. He made them worse, not better.

 

[81usaf92]

Peyton in the beginning of his Broncos stint was still Peyton. Only question was his injury. Brady doesn't seem to still be Brady at this point.

Agree to a point. Peyton stepped into a situations of situations in that Elway broke the damn bank on getting the best offense of all time. Its like I hinted at, Brady is probably going to a team that has serious weapons to mask his age like Peyton did, or to an owner that is willing to pay for those weapons.

And when Peyton did win a Super Bowl for the Broncos they won in spite of Peyton not because of.

Its kinda funny that Peyton would win 2 superbowls with 2 horrible performances.

 

[81usaf92]

Sorry - that is wrong. Manning won the SB as the lowest rated QB in the NFL that year with the Broncos. He made them worse, not better.

So breaking the NFL passing record, and recording the best offensive statistical year isn't elevating your offensive potential?

 

[Jay Hughes]

Do you have any idea how much insurance costs for a Ferrari?

They can insure themselves. They can afford it.

 

[81usaf92]

The former also requires that Brady be the old Brady. He will never be that guy again. His receivers did not make him look bad this year - he did. His passes were not even close.

Losing Gronk and having to rely on Edelman and Sanu is a big transition. He wont be the old Brady, but he isn't a Brett Favre old man either

 

[B1GTide]

So breaking the NFL passing record, and recording the best offensive statistical year isn't elevating your offensive potential?

What are you talking about? In 2015 he had a QBR of 43.9, threw 9 TD passes to 17 interceptions. He was the worst QB in the NFL, by far.

 

[81usaf92]

What are you talking about? In 2015 he had a QBR of 43.9, threw 9 TD passes to 17 interceptions. He was the worst QB in the NFL, by far.

Here is the statement that started this:

You're not going to win much paying Brady a ton of money at this point IMO. He's probably going to play worse for most teams than he would for the Patriots at this point anyway.

To which I said this

The same argument was used with Manning and Montana but both elevated teams beyond what they were capable

How is that an untrue statement when Peyton was a part of the best statistical offense in NFL history with the Broncos? Just because he sucked his last year doesn't negate that Elway hit a homerun with him.

 

[B1GTide]

How is that an untrue statement when Peyton was a part of the best statistical offense in NFL history with the Broncos? Just because he sucked his last year doesn't negate that Elway hit a homerun with him.

They hit a home run by hiring him, how? They didn't win a SB during those years, or because of Manning. They were just another team when he was putting up those stats.

They hit a home run when they brought in all of those great defensive players. It is pure coincidence that he was the QB in 2015. He was HORRIBLE in 2015. They would have won that SB with you playing QB.

 

[81usaf92]

They hit a home run by hiring him, how? They didn't win a SB during those years, or because of Manning. They were just another team when he was putting up those stats.

In 2013 they got to the Super Bowl almost purely by his arm. Their defense absolutely sucked without Von Miller. But getting to the Super Bowl with an organization that hadn't been in 15 years is an accomplishment. SBs are often weird variables used to decide arguments, but getting to a Super Bowl is a major accomplishment if you aren't the Patriots, Steelers, or 49ers in which its "a been there done that so it useless unless we win that" kinda thing

.

They hit a home run when they brought in all of those great defensive players. It is pure coincidence that he was the QB in 2015. He was HORRIBLE in 2015. They would have won that SB with you playing QB.

You don't have to tell me how bad he sucked that year, Ive often been far more critical of Peyton Manning than 90% of this board. But you cant tell me that Tim Tebow would've gotten them there if Elway caved under the fan opinion instead of bringing out the checkbook.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

I think this argument really centers around where in Brady's career you think he is I guess.

I think Big and I are maybe assuming hes closer to the end then 81 is. None of us will really know until the next couple of seasons play out though.

 

[81usaf92]

I think this argument really centers around where in Brady's career you think he is I guess.

I think Big and I are maybe assuming hes closer to the end then 81 is. None of us will really know until the next couple of seasons play out though.

He is towards the end (not really debatable) , but I think he has some value depending on who is asking for him. But lets not act like his end is as bad as Peyton or Favre. Brady is a typical low risk moderate reward kinda passer whereas Peyton and Favre were High risk High reward type of guys. Also take in account the severity of his injury is nowhere near the punishment that Peyton and Favre were. So its entirely possible for him to still be a middle of the pack qb like he was this year.

But it gets to the question of what he is worth... As a Steelers fan I would love Brady on my team, but not at the expense of Bud Dupree. But for a team like the Chargers who have the potential of moving up in the draft to get Tua then I would probably pay a little more than he is worth to get Brady to be my steward while Tua heals and starts to learn. I wouldn't expect a Super Bowl, but a Wild Card game maybe not out of the question.

Then you have teams like the Cowboys in which you are married at the hip with Dak, and you know he isn't the answer. I think Jerry would be crazy enough to go after Brady to atleast win a crap division to shut the fans up. So Brady could mean a lot of sense there.

But in both in both of those scenarios Brady is given a weak division with better weapons than he has to work with, so more or less he can mask his age more in those situations while being a financial boom for those organizations and probably a steward to the organization's next face of the franchise. More or less Brady gets to play until he is 45 while the organization gets some heat taken off their front office. I dont think any serious contender should really go after him (unless you really think the Titans and Cowboys are serious contenders).

 

[The Ols]

He is towards the end (not really debatable) , but I think he has some value depending on who is asking for him. But lets not act like his end is as bad as Peyton or Favre. Brady is a typical low risk moderate reward kinda passer whereas Peyton and Favre were High risk High reward type of guys. Also take in account the severity of his injury is nowhere near the punishment that Peyton and Favre were. So its entirely possible for him to still be a middle of the pack qb like he was this year.

But it gets to the question of what he is worth... As a Steelers fan I would love Brady on my team, but not at the expense of Bud Dupree. But for a team like the Chargers who have the potential of moving up in the draft to get Tua then I would probably pay a little more than he is worth to get Brady to be my steward while Tua heals and starts to learn. I wouldn't expect a Super Bowl, but a Wild Card game maybe not out of the question.

Then you have teams like the Cowboys in which you are married at the hip with Dak, and you know he isn't the answer. I think Jerry would be crazy enough to go after Brady to atleast win a crap division to shut the fans up. So Brady could mean a lot of sense there.

But in both in both of those scenarios Brady is given a weak division with better weapons than he has to work with, so more or less he can mask his age more in those situations while being a financial boom for those organizations and probably a steward to the organization's next face of the franchise. More or less Brady gets to play until he is 45 while the organization gets some heat taken off their front office. I dont think any serious contender should really go after him (unless you really think the Titans and Cowboys are serious contenders).

Lost me right there...I agree with a lot of what you say, but this is 🦇 crazy...

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

He is towards the end (not really debatable) , but I think he has some value depending on who is asking for him. But lets not act like his end is as bad as Peyton or Favre. Brady is a typical low risk moderate reward kinda passer whereas Peyton and Favre were High risk High reward type of guys. Also take in account the severity of his injury is nowhere near the punishment that Peyton and Favre were. So its entirely possible for him to still be a middle of the pack qb like he was this year.

But it gets to the question of what he is worth... As a Steelers fan I would love Brady on my team, but not at the expense of Bud Dupree. But for a team like the Chargers who have the potential of moving up in the draft to get Tua then I would probably pay a little more than he is worth to get Brady to be my steward while Tua heals and starts to learn. I wouldn't expect a Super Bowl, but a Wild Card game maybe not out of the question.

Then you have teams like the Cowboys in which you are married at the hip with Dak, and you know he isn't the answer. I think Jerry would be crazy enough to go after Brady to atleast win a crap division to shut the fans up. So Brady could mean a lot of sense there.

But in both in both of those scenarios Brady is given a weak division with better weapons than he has to work with, so more or less he can mask his age more in those situations while being a financial boom for those organizations and probably a steward to the organization's next face of the franchise. More or less Brady gets to play until he is 45 while the organization gets some heat taken off their front office. I dont think any serious contender should really go after him (unless you really think the Titans and Cowboys are serious contenders).

I agree there may be some situations where it would be worth paying a premium for Brady but most of those situations require some sort of agreement with Brady where he is willing to be a mentor/transitional player. As a large portion of his value comes with his expertise and knowledge as opposed to on the field play moving forward. I have no idea if he is open to that or not. Based on his actions toward Jimmy G while they were on the same team gives me some doubt though.

If you want a middle of the road QB to simply hold you over until you find a new QB though I think there are likely cheaper options. But you won't sell as many jerseys.

I think Brady's real value is limited to the Patriots and teams in very specific situations that takes advantage of his knowledge. Otherwise I'd rather any team I support go with a cheaper option.

 

[81usaf92]

Lost me right there...I agree with a lot of what you say, but this is 🦇 crazy...

Alot of what Jerry has done since 1994 makes 0 sense. I think sticking with Romo and garrett for so long are among two of the worst of them. The fans are just now starting to rebel on him for it, and I really think if he signs Dak for a long deal there will be a lot of fans voting with their feet over it. Dak is an okay quarterback that probably wont last another 4 years unless Jerry keeps him like he did Romo.

Brady isn't worth a high dollar contract at this point of his career, but Jerry ultimately knows a Brady Cowboys Jersey has a crazy value, and that Brady is probably worth a few wins more than Dak which may mean two division championships while Mccarthy can find a true successor for North Texas. I think Jerry is the only person besides Kraft that is crazy enough to give Brady a top 10 qb salary.

And for Brady, what more can you ask for? He would have a Top 10 offense with a pretty good defense to play in a bad division with for 2 years.

Point is never doubt Jerry in crazieness

 

[81usaf92]

I agree there may be some situations where it would be worth paying a premium for Brady but most of those situations require some sort of agreement with Brady where he is willing to be a mentor/transitional player. As a large portion of his value comes with his expertise and knowledge as opposed to on the field play moving forward. I have no idea if he is open to that or not. Based on his actions toward Jimmy G while they were on the same team gives me some doubt though.

Yeah the Jimmy G situation was a terrible ordeal, but lets not act like Brady didn't have a legitimate issue with it or if that is the rule and not the exception. Brady still had some in him, and had probably the best TE in history wanting to come back for one more hurrah with a very good defense. Brady knew the 2018 team was a SB caliber team with or without him so why not be a little greedy to ensure you could get 6-7 SB rings. I think he will probably be more open to it now than he was then

If you want a middle of the road QB to simply hold you over until you find a new QB though I think there are likely cheaper options. But you won't sell as many jerseys.

Brady still was the #2 best selling jersey behind Mahommes this year. Imagine if he went to a team like the Cowboys.

I think Brady's real value is limited to the Patriots and teams in very specific situations that takes advantage of his knowledge. Otherwise I'd rather any team I support go with a cheaper option.

I think Brady is going to be cheaper than what most expect. I think of course he is going to have a bottom line and most likely an offer that he cant refuse to pass. But ultimately I think there are only a small amount of teams that he is realistically considering. Chargers are probably the most likely suitors.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Yeah the Jimmy G situation was a terrible ordeal, but lets not act like Brady didn't have a legitimate issue with it or if that is the rule and not the exception. Brady still had some in him, and had probably the best TE in history wanting to come back for one more hurrah with a very good defense. Brady knew the 2018 team was a SB caliber team with or without him so why not be a little greedy to ensure you could get 6-7 SB rings. I think he will probably be more open to it now than he was then



Brady still was the #2 best selling jersey behind Mahommes this year. Imagine if he went to a team like the Cowboys.




I think Brady is going to be cheaper than what most expect. I think of course he is going to have a bottom line and most likely an offer that he cant refuse to pass. But ultimately I think there are only a small amount of teams that he is realistically considering. Chargers are probably the most likely suitors.

Fair enough. I do think the Chargers make probably the most sense if Rivers is gone.

 

[Probius]

I saw this video and immediately thought about this thread.

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[Bamabuzzard]

I saw this video and immediately thought about this thread.

Here you go: Link

I think the quarterback isn't the only one who doesn't need to max out his contract. For example, if Mahomes chooses to take less. It all goes for nothing if the players you attempt to sign with the savings want to max out their pay or set a new bar for their position. If all you're able to do with savings from the QB taking less is sign two players. Then what have you really accomplished? At some point, the majority on the team have to make a decision about how long do they want to win. Because the moment everyone on the team has their hand out wanting huge new contracts. They've basically made the decision "Continuing to win is no longer my top priority."

 

[B1GTide]

I think the quarterback isn't the only one who doesn't need to max out his contract. For example, if Mahomes chooses to take less. It all goes for nothing if the players you attempt to sign with the savings want to max out their pay or set a new bar for their position. If all you're able to do with savings from the QB taking less is sign two players. Then what have you really accomplished? At some point, the majority on the team have to make a decision about how long do they want to win. Because the moment everyone on the team has their hand out wanting huge new contracts. They've basically made the decision "Continuing to win is no longer my top priority."

Yep - you have to use the Belichick model - no one gets a max contract. No one.