Defensive Adjustments Question

[crimsonaudio]

The guy that we spent the better part of 5 years ridiculing has moved to the box to call the defense and has given up 23 points all season...

Hahahaha

They've played four HS teams and two of the least effective offenses in the league.

Gol*ing still sucks.

 

[JohnD]

Well, for the record I'm not calling for Womack to be fired. I wish Alabama kept Saban's system, I'm not sure of the necessity to change it, but I understand Womack doesn't necessarily have the expertise to run it anyway. What I want for now though, is for Womack to succeed. I'd like him to have more support ultimately.


I'm far from an expert, but I did not have that reaction. Admittedly though I was being pretty whiny at the time and gave myself a bit of a timeout due to the fact that I clearly wasn't being objective. Having said that, I worry you can apply Occam's Razor. What is more likely, that Indiana just happened to have two of the best coordinators in the entire nation, or they got hired because of their relationship with DeBoer? Having said that, even if the latter is true, Saban had to hire Applewhite his first year, so sometimes hires on short notice might not be the best possible ones. Still wishing the best for Womack though.


Without going even further into the weeds, I will note that this is still early, it could turn out that Womack ends up with the better rated defense once this is all said and done. It does make me wonder if the maturation of Golding might finally be happening, he was never lacking in terms of understanding of defense, but his in game adjustments were questionable. If he's cleaned that up he could end up being a truly great DC, clearly the guy that Saban thought he could be.

I'm not ready to proclaim Golding is a genius. I just know he could not run Saban's defense very well, but he's not running Saban's defense now. I doubt Wommack could run Saban's defense either because he's sure not running his own very well. That said, we have a lot of youth in the back half of the defense, and our experienced safeties and linebackers stunk it up against Vandy. DB's could not tackle, and our LB's seemed to be everywhere but where they needed to be.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

I don’t think Happy Meal is going to make it back to major college football!

 

[JDCrimson]

Lets tap the brakes, no one is suggesting CPG is a genius... But the reality is we spent the first week of fall camp every year CPG was here and before repping Saban's base 3/4 over under defense almost like a ceremonial rite of passage. Like saying the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of each school day. Every defensive player had to learn it. Yet that defense alignment would only be used in 2%-5% of the snaps during the sesson in modern spread football.

Saban's defense put LBs in man coverage way too much and away from run support in the middle. Anbody remember seeing Dylan Moses trying to cover a WR, RB, or TE in a route? How often did we see Will Anderson running with receiver? If the DL couldnt get pressure quick enough Saban would opt for even more and tighter man coverage rather than turn the DBs toward the ball. RPOs forcing LBs into pass cover duties.

I say all this to say, all these coaches have tendencies/principles they dont want to deviate from whether its Saban, Deboer, Wommack. Neither Deboer or Wommack are going to show up running prostyle sets. They dont have the foundational knowledge to run it. Just like Saban didnt have the ability to retool his prostyle offense into spread no huddle.

I'm not ready to proclaim Golding is a genius. I just know he could not run Saban's defense very well, but he's not running Saban's defense now. I doubt Wommack could run Saban's defense either because he's sure not running his own very well. That said, we have a lot of youth in the back half of the defense, and our experienced safeties and linebackers stunk it up against Vandy. DB's could not tackle, and our LB's seemed to be everywhere but where they needed to be.

 

[Jack Bourbon]

What im struggling with is the opportunistic approach on both sides of the ball we employ. We had most mostly pro level players playing in prostyle systems with prostyle techniques.

Now, we cant run the ball unless an OL is pulling. All this swarming defense is just taking elite players and putting some of them out of position.

Our QB and OL couldn't run ball control offense if their lives depended on it.

I think at some level our coaches are running systems that you find in more talent challenged programs. Imo, this at some level masks deficiencies in coaching strategy and technique. That being said, i am concerned our DC is in over his head in the SEC. Golding at least had the mentorship of Saban and he learned a few things while with us in stopping the run.

I thought for sure we would try to pound the rock when we had the ball down 5 with about 4 mins left, to run the clock out and score the winning TD. instead, passing plays ending with strip sack. Something to be said for doing things the old way.

 

[JDCrimson]

Agree, but i dont think we can run the ball with one on one blocking or zone blocking schemes. We are only effective running when we have OL getting out in space. I do wonder if our running game philosophy is similar to what we would have had under Mike Price had he stayed or Mike Leach? If so, that aint good in the SEC upper echelon...

I thought for sure we would try to pound the rock when we had the ball down 5 with about 4 mins left, to run the clock out and score the winning TD. instead, passing plays ending with strip sack. Something to be said for doing things the old way.

 

[Jack Bourbon]

Agree, but i dont think we can run the ball with one on one blocking or zone blocking schemes. We are only effective running when we have OL getting out in space. I do wonder if our running game philosophy is similar to what we would have had under Mike Price had he stayed or Mike Leach? If so, that aint good in the SEC upper echelon...

Yeah, it is weird. You need to be able to possess the ball (ie run consistently) to protect your defense and close out games, so it is a shame we dont seem to take it seriously as a priority

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

As a teacher, Instructional coach, and athletic coach with 25 years of experience, let me say that any change to an organization is difficult. I was looking at the ULM post game thread from 2007 and people were doubting Saban and the process! There were players basically quitting that year because they didn't "buy-in" and there were some question marks as to the direction of the program.

Saban himself was unable to change and that's why he retired. The college game and players were changing to what he had left in Miami and he could no longer control the program. I think it was evident after COVID.

When implementing anything new you may take 1 step forward and 2 steps back! You are going to have people buy-in and then your are going to have your fundamentalist who refuse to change. You work with those that will change and let the others go because they are detrimental to the organization.

I'm always going to Bama fan! The one thing we can all expect is change! Some will like it and "buy-in" and be apart of the new or stay set in their ways that no longer work. You either change, or wither away!

 

[arthurdawg]

As a teacher, Instructional coach, and athletic coach with 25 years of experience, let me say that any change to an organization is difficult. I was looking at the ULM post game thread from 2007 and people were doubting Saban and the process! There were players basically quitting that year because they didn't "buy-in" and there were some question marks as to the direction of the program.

Saban himself was unable to change and that's why he retired. The college game and players were changing to what he had left in Miami and he could no longer control the program. I think it was evident after COVID.

When implementing anything new you may take 1 step forward and 2 steps back! You are going to have people buy-in and then your are going to have your fundamentalist who refuse to change. You work with those that will change and let the others go because they are detrimental to the organization.

I'm always going to Bama fan! The one thing we can all expect is change! Some will like it and "buy-in" and be apart of the new or stay set in their ways that no longer work. You either change, or wither away!

Good point. I felt we'd drop a game along the way that we shouldn't based on talent alone.

Hopefully this is it and a fire is lit...

Because even though this isn't classical Vandy, it is still Vandy! But I am impressed with Diego Pavia. Guy is a baller and plays beyond his measurables.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

Good point. I felt we'd drop a game along the way that we shouldn't based on talent alone.

Hopefully this is it and a fire is lit...

Because even though this isn't classical Vandy, it is still Vandy! But I am impressed with Diego Pavia. Guy is a baller and plays beyond his measurables.

Probably may drop a few more. Being undefeated is about to go away for everyone.

 

[cdub55]

The bigger question for me is why are we not adjusting our defensive alignments more based on the opponent. Its fine if you base out of a 4-2-5, 3-3 stack, 4-3, or 3-4 but when you face a team that is unorthodox, you also have to get unorthodox. Match up to them with your box numbers which means you will have to adjust your coverages and maybe move some people around. I felt like Saturday we were light in the box a few times and tried to keep everything in front of us as opposed to trying to create negative plays. I didn't think our blitzes or our looks were very exotic and it was very predictable for Vandy to know if they get in _____ set, they are getting ____ coverage, and ____ alignment. When an offense knows what you are in, that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

The bigger question for me is why are we not adjusting our defensive alignments more based on the opponent. Its fine if you base out of a 4-2-5, 3-3 stack, 4-3, or 3-4 but when you face a team that is unorthodox, you also have to get unorthodox. Match up to them with your box numbers which means you will have to adjust your coverages and maybe move some people around. I felt like Saturday we were light in the box a few times and tried to keep everything in front of us as opposed to trying to create negative plays. I didn't think our blitzes or our looks were very exotic and it was very predictable for Vandy to know if they get in _____ set, they are getting ____ coverage, and ____ alignment. When an offense knows what you are in, that is a recipe for disaster.

Because the players might not know how to play those formations and you are more likely to get beat worse if try to change in a short period of time. The human brain can't learn that fast in a week. It takes 4,000 to 6,000 repetitions for an activity to become muscle memory.

 

[CrimSonami]

Good point. I felt we'd drop a game along the way that we shouldn't based on talent alone.

Hopefully this is it and a fire is lit...

Because even though this isn't classical Vandy, it is still Vandy! But I am impressed with Diego Pavia. Guy is a baller and plays beyond his measurables.

I would hope the fire was lit after the 2nd half of the UGA game, but it appears not. My concern now is who's starting that fire, who's stoking/tending to keep it maintained at a comfortable level and under control?

 

[BamaMoon]

I haven't read much beyond the 1st page of this thread, but, right now is NOT the time to call CNS in for advice for major change.

Womack has to be the one making some adjustments.

But, also, I've mentioned this more than once, I think we are having a knee-jerk reaction to a couple of very, very unusual game situations.

The last 3 quarters against Georgia they went for it on 4th down every time! And stopping offenses like Vandy is something CNS's defensive scheme struggled with too!

So, let's take a breath and let Womack work. If the coming games reveal the same problems or they start running deeper, CKD has his first hard decision to make on Womack.

 

[skrayper77]

Wommack earns 1.55 MILLION per year to be the DC at Alabama. If he needs to go out and solicit advice from CNS, he needs to be terminated immediately.

Man, I could have fielded a better defense than the one we had Saturday. Where's my check?

 

[cdub55]

Because the players might not know how to play those formations and you are more likely to get beat worse if try to change in a short period of time. The human brain can't learn that fast in a week.

Been a football coach for almost 20 years. You can definitely adjust alignments and assignments to formations in a week. You don't have to re-invent the wheel. For instance, when they get in ____ set, I need you to roll down and apex the EMLOS and the #2 WR. We are just simply going to play Cover ____ against this set. It doesn't change what you have installed altogether, it just simply may change who is doing the assignment. It is why you teach concepts and not plays. When installing a coverage everyone in the secondary needs to know what everyone else is doing. The only coverage where that doesn't matter much is man to man, unless you are running a scheme with safeties over the top. IMO, you can't sell your soul to a certain defense and think it will be good every week.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

Been a football coach for almost 20 years. You can definitely adjust alignments and assignments to formations in a week. You don't have to re-invent the wheel. For instance, when they get in ____ set, I need you to roll down and apex the EMLOS and the #2 WR. We are just simply going to play Cover ____ against this set. It doesn't change what you have installed altogether, it just simply may change who is doing the assignment. It is why you teach concepts and not plays. When installing a coverage everyone in the secondary needs to know what everyone else is doing. The only coverage where that doesn't matter much is man to man, unless you are running a scheme with safeties over the top. IMO, you can't sell your soul to a certain defense and think it will be good every week.

I think they are still learning the base defense. Good Point! Then you have coaches that run plays and those that run a system of concepts like you were saying. The jury is out on Wommack as to how he does it.

 

[Slowpoke Catracho]

My biggest concern is not getting pressure on the QB. I think we just don't have the athletes up front.

 

[CB4]

I don’t think Happy Meal is going to make it back to major college football!

I certainly would be surprised. And CJP and this current staff would go together like castor oil and Ambien. Wouldn’t be long before you had a real messy bed.

 

[cdub55]

I certainly would be surprised. And CJP and this current staff would go together like castor oil and Ambien. Wouldn’t be long before you had a real messy bed.

Pruitt worked for Jimbo. I actually spoke with him in Tallahassee a few weeks after he took the job and he loved it. Very few coaches, and you might even argue none of them, enjoyed working for Saban. The mental and physical stress he put on you was extremely demanding. Pruitt loved working with Jimbo and the laid back atmosphere he gave off. Pruitt is not a laid back guy but JF let him do his thing and run the defense as he wished. I think Deboer would be similar in that style and wouldn't micromanage. You might be shocked at how well those two might get along.