I still think we got the right guy (Coach DeBoer)

[cdub55]

Unfortunately, there's no such thing as this mythical middle ground of "I'm waiting and seeing". Those who are supporting him think he is presently the right guy and those who aren't don't think he is the right guy. The truth leaks, and it's gushed through several posters who are using the mythical stance of "I'm waiting and seeing". #thetruthleaks

When someone's posts are overwhelming negative, even in positive moments, it doesn't take a forensic scientists to know where they stand.

"Wait and See" is code word for, I'm going to "I told you so" when the first thing goes bad with the program.

 

[Redwood Forrest]

I listened to my two favorite talking heads and got a new perspective on the 4-2-5, nickel or whatever our D is called. This D is very popular and is used by several top 12 teams. The problem is that you need the right personnel. I do not know about adjustments, they didn't get into that while I was able to listen.

 

[CrimsonBloodn62]

"Wait and See" is code word for, I'm going to "I told you so" when the first thing goes bad with the program.

Before last Saturday's fiasco, we were seeing comments about how much Bama has improved its coaching staff from last year. Now we have posters ready to run Wammack off and if CKD was the right hire. I'm so confused. Lol

 

[teamplayer]

I will also offer a reminder for whatever it's worth (which is nothing).

Kirby lost to Vandy his first year at UGA in 2016. He had Nick Chubb playing at the time.

I remember it because I laughed!

Yeah, I laughed at Auburn last year when Pavia was making them look silly. It wasn't as funny last Saturday, but the kid can play.

 

[teamplayer]

Before last Saturday's fiasco, we were seeing comments about how much Bama has improved its coaching staff from last year. Now we have posters ready to run Wammack off and if CKD was the right hire. I'm so confused. Lol

That is really funny. A loss to Vandy is a very sobering affair.

 

[Scobaman]

For those who already favor replacing the coaching staff, we can do that and be more like Auburn and
Florida (both of those teams would have been better off to have stuck with a coach that they fired). Maybe then we can change our name to FlawBurn.

 

[TexasBama]

I would posit that folks that are thinking this was the most painful loss ever weren't sentient on December 31, 1973.

 

[cdub55]

I listened to my two favorite talking heads and got a new perspective on the 4-2-5, nickel or whatever our D is called. This D is very popular and is used by several top 12 teams. The problem is that you need the right personnel. I do not know about adjustments, they didn't get into that while I was able to listen.

Be careful getting your football scheme and knowledge from 99% of these guys. Only a handful of them don't make my head hurt afterwards.

 

[CoolBreeze]

Glad we have CKD. I mean, did anybody think he would NEVER lose a game??? I know...it was Vandy, but it was going to happen sooner or later.

Shoot, CNS, the goat, had only 2 undefeated seasons in his unprecedented run and one of those was a shortened Covid season.

Deboer has been coaching 19 years with a winning percentage of over 89%. The game he lost on Saturday is only the 13th in his career. Dude knows how to win and I am sure he does not like dealing with a loss, especially at Alabama. We are in good hands.

 

[gtgilbert]

Historically the West Coast teams that have been successful recruit rangier guys and don't go after the Mount Cody's of the world. They are accustomed to seeing wide open offenses and tend to recruit the Troy Polamalu's, Kayvon Thibodeaux's, etc of the world. We definitely do not have a 4-2-5 roster right now. Not to say that we can't be successful with the current guys, but we will definitely be asking some of them to play a certain style that most likely doesn't fit their strength's and skillsets. This will be corrected over the coming recruiting cycles and portal transfers I am certain.

I'd love more of your thoughts on this. IMHO, we have been running a 4-2-5 for the last decade + (we've been in nickel D well over 90% of our plays most years with dime being another 6-8%) just a different variant with different concepts and principles. Saban either used 3DL and an OLB or 2DL and 2OLB to make up the front 4, where Wommack uses 2DT (who are most like the DL of the Saban mold), a DE (the Bandit) and an OLB (Wolf) to make up the 4.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

DeBoer clearly has something in his offense. Milroe looks like a completely new player in some ways and the Seahawks seem to be one of the better NFL offenses with Grubbs at the helm. I think as long as he is here we will be successful on the offensive end.

The question with him might forever be if he can pair it with the right defensive coordinator. I still have some hope for Wommack but our performance the last 6 quarters has been concerning. Hopefully he doesn't turn into a Lincoln Riley (though I think he's a better offensive coach than Riley)

 

[cdub55]

I'd love more of your thoughts on this. IMHO, we have been running a 4-2-5 for the last decade + (we've been in nickel D well over 90% of our plays most years with dime being another 6-8%) just a different variant with different concepts and principles. Saban either used 3DL and an OLB or 2DL and 2OLB to make up the front 4, where Wommack uses 2DT (who are most like the DL of the Saban mold), a DE (the Bandit) and an OLB (Wolf) to make up the 4.

Go back and watch the Vanderbilt game and you will glaringly see what I'm referencing. It's not that our guys aren't good/great football players, some of them are just simply being asked to do some things that they weren't recruited to do. Side note: This is not an excuse for the lack of effort and execution from the last 6 quarters.

The 4-2-5 depends on pressure and athletic players all over the field to be successful. Particularly up front, some of our guys are more dispositioned to 2 gap or control their gap via lock, peak, shed techniques. Ideally, KW would like guys who can slash through gaps and create penetration and chaos in the backfield. The learning curve for the secondary and LB's is much less than the big guys but we have some unproven guys that are being asked to play at a high level and that is where we are seeing inconsistencies there, not necessarily that they are not suited for this defense. Sam linebacker is the position where we are going to need a "unicorn" who can cover man to man but is also big enough to handle OL and be a run fitter.

 

[cdub55]

DeBoer clearly has something in his offense. Milroe looks like a completely new player in some ways and the Seahawks seem to be one of the better NFL offenses with Grubbs at the helm. I think as long as he is here we will be successful on the offensive end.

The question with him might forever be if he can pair it with the right defensive coordinator. I still have some hope for Wommack but our performance the last 6 quarters has been concerning. Hopefully he doesn't turn into a Lincoln Riley (though I think he's a better offensive coach than Riley)

Deboer is no Freeze when it comes to being a QB Whisperer but I think he will be ok there.

 

[gtgilbert]

Go back and watch the Vanderbilt game and you will glaringly see what I'm referencing. It's not that our guys aren't good/great football players, some of them are just simply being asked to do some things that they weren't recruited to do. Side note: This is not an excuse for the lack of effort and execution from the last 6 quarters.

The 4-2-5 depends on pressure and athletic players all over the field to be successful. Particularly up front, some of our guys are more dispositioned to 2 gap or control their gap via lock, peak, shed techniques. Ideally, KW would like guys who can slash through gaps and create penetration and chaos in the backfield. The learning curve for the secondary and LB's is much less than the big guys but we have some unproven guys that are being asked to play at a high level and that is where we are seeing inconsistencies there, not necessarily that they are not suited for this defense. Sam linebacker is the position where we are going to need a "unicorn" who can cover man to man but is also big enough to handle OL and be a run fitter.

but that's more about the play style and approach than the formation and alignment right? Like I said, Saban was running a 4-2-5 forever, but as you mentioned, more of the 2 gap philosophy instead of 1 gap.

 

[Jack Bourbon]

Go back and watch the Vanderbilt game and you will glaringly see what I'm referencing. It's not that our guys aren't good/great football players, some of them are just simply being asked to do some things that they weren't recruited to do. Side note: This is not an excuse for the lack of effort and execution from the last 6 quarters.

The 4-2-5 depends on pressure and athletic players all over the field to be successful. Particularly up front, some of our guys are more dispositioned to 2 gap or control their gap via lock, peak, shed techniques. Ideally, KW would like guys who can slash through gaps and create penetration and chaos in the backfield. The learning curve for the secondary and LB's is much less than the big guys but we have some unproven guys that are being asked to play at a high level and that is where we are seeing inconsistencies there, not necessarily that they are not suited for this defense. Sam linebacker is the position where we are going to need a "unicorn" who can cover man to man but is also big enough to handle OL and be a run fitter.

Makes you wonder why we are running the scheme prior to getting the personnel to execute it. Given that there are potential championship implications on the line.

 

[cdub55]

Makes you wonder why we are running the scheme prior to getting the personnel to execute it. Given that there are potential championship implications on the line.

Philosophically it doesn't make sense to hire a DC and not let him run his stuff. It isn't as if we have 450 pound DL that we are asking to contain the perimeter, it is more so that in a perfect world we would have slight adaptations to our personnel. The players we have can execute and perform the defense imo.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Before last Saturday's fiasco, we were seeing comments about how much Bama has improved its coaching staff from last year. Now we have posters ready to run Wammack off and if CKD was the right hire. I'm so confused. Lol

Welcome to the internet.

 

[gtgilbert]

Makes you wonder why we are running the scheme prior to getting the personnel to execute it. Given that there are potential championship implications on the line.

it was a totally different situation with almost nothing to lose in his first year, but Saban moved 'Bama from a 4-3 front to the 3-4 his first year and that is a much, much bigger shift from a personnel and player style standpoint than what we are looking at now. We were taking DE's and trying to make them play OLB and also pure off-ball players (ILBs and a Safety) and converted them into OLBs also.

 

[cdub55]

but that's more about the play style and approach than the formation and alignment right? Like I said, Saban was running a 4-2-5 forever, but as you mentioned, more of the 2 gap philosophy instead of 1 gap.

Play style and to some extent alignment, but definitely play style. Saban believes in a true 3-4 defense (2-4-5 and 2-3-6 with two-gapping) and his base defense was this. Of course he had a long yardage package, or on occasion against certain teams would utilize nickel and dime personnel groupings. Another big change is coverage in that Saban believed in pattern matching (Rip/Liz) and for many years it was the gold standard. Offenses have become keen to the rules Saban and now Kirby use and have built in answers to some of that, which we saw Tennessee, TA&M, and a few others give us problems with.

Because Saban had his Jack LB roll down on many plays, it gave us a four man surface and could give off the look that we were running some variant of a 4-3 or 4-2-5. But we definitely are asking our current players to do things that they have not done before to some extent.

 

[Tidewater]

Tim Smith says coaches demeanor changed after Saturday.
Alabama DL says Kalen DeBoer’s demeanor has changed since loss to Vandy: “He has buckled down more”
Good, I suppose.