Immigration and Customs Enforcement (I.C.E.)

[TIDE-HSV]

I've posted this numerous times, but I see it needs reposting. The present law is that, no matter how an individual enters the country, the moment he/she declares a plea for asylum, they are no longer "illegal," under the law. They are entitled to a hearing under an administrative law judge to determine the legitimacy of their claim. If they're turned down, then, and only then are they "illegal." While they're on parole, waiting on a hearing, they are not "illegal." Now, Biden tried to follow the law, which was obviously never intended to handle millions of immigrants, not to mention the absurdly inadequate number of judges. He finally went back to breaking the law, just as the present administration is. The main difference is that Biden tried to deport selectively. Trump's is giving lip service to that but, in fact, are having to meet an arbitrary quota set by Stephen Miller. The two parties can't even have a sensible dialog about reform now. The position of each is too important as an issue. The president is getting bad advice, but then look at the advisors...

 

[UAH]

That is not true. The vast number of currently illegal immigrants have entered the country via a legal visa (such as a guest visa, etc.) at the port of entry and then overstayed it.

Data:
"Nevertheless, among the total unauthorized population residing in the United States as of 2017, an estimated 4.9 million, or 46 percent, had overstayed a visa, and the other 54 percent had originally arrived via EWI (Warren 2019a).”

Source: https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v85n2/v85n2p1.html

Exactly. There have been millions of arrivals at airports who have entered and overstayed their Visas or arrived in Canadian airports and ultimately came to the US because of family ties or for economic reasons.

We have made Mexicans and Central Americans (Brown people) the issue because of it being a volatile political issue.

The thing I have difficulty with is how anyone can believe that we can deport those working in the fields or on constructions sites for the past several decades without it have a serious economic impact in terms of food inflation/availability and rising construction cost.

Of course this administration doesn't have a clue about any of that! That is clear from their stated tariff policies.

 

[some_al_fan]

Sweet. Let’s deport them too.

Would you support deporting Elon Musk and for the US to never have SpaceX (among his other achievements)?
To clarify, Musk was working on his startup (pre-PayPal) illegally while in the country on an F-1 student visa, which does not permit such activity. That is a deportable offense.

I am just giving you an easy example of why deportations can hurt the country

 

[92tide]

Our other LEO don't mask...with the exception of undercover work.

it’s a lame ass excuse.

 

[Its On A Slab]

Would you support deporting Elon Musk and for the US to never have SpaceX (among his other achievements)?
To clarify, Musk was working on his startup (pre-PayPal) illegally while in the country on an F-1 student visa, which does not permit such activity. That is a deportable offense.

I am just giving you an easy example of why deportations can hurt the country

I guess the difference with Musk is that he's rich, an Afrikaner, and thus, not part of the demonized/scapegoated class that has the bull's-eye on them.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Would you support deporting Elon Musk and for the US to never have SpaceX (among his other achievements)?
To clarify, Musk was working on his startup (pre-PayPal) illegally while in the country on an F-1 student visa, which does not permit such activity. That is a deportable offense.

I am just giving you an easy example of why deportations can hurt the country

Yes, that would be hilarious. It would be the "Trump" thing to do. Don't agree with his bill, get deported.

 

[AWRTR]

Would you support deporting Elon Musk and for the US to never have SpaceX (among his other achievements)?
To clarify, Musk was working on his startup (pre-PayPal) illegally while in the country on an F-1 student visa, which does not permit such activity. That is a deportable offense.

I am just giving you an easy example of why deportations can hurt the country

If he was here Illegally then sure. I have to obey the law or face the consequences why should others not? We either have the rule of law or we don't. If people can stay here illegally with no consequences then why can't I ignore the laws I don't like with no consequences? I don't want to pay income tax. Why should I have to pay them if we don't attempt to enforce the law equally? I understand no system is perfect and the law will never be equally enforced in all cases but when the government doesn't even try that's a problem. When people just get to do what they want in one area of the law tell me why I have to obey an area I don't like?

 

[some_al_fan]

If he was here Illegally then sure. I have to obey the law or face the consequences why should others not? We either have the rule of law or we don't. If people can stay here illegally with no consequences then why can't I ignore the laws I don't like with no consequences? I don't want to pay income tax. Why should I have to pay them if we don't attempt to enforce the law equally? I understand no system is perfect and the law will never be equally enforced in all cases but when the government doesn't even try that's a problem. When people just get to do what they want in one area of the law tell me why I have to obey an area I don't like?

I’ve got ChatGPT to answer on Musk’s specific case to save me time to write it:
```
Is Unauthorized Work a Deportable Offense?
Yes — unauthorized employment is considered a status violation, and:

• Violating F-1 status by working without proper authorization (such as CPT or OPT) can render the student deportable under U.S. immigration law.
• The law gives U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) the authority to initiate removal (deportation) proceedings based on this.

Is It Automatically a Deportation, or Is There Judicial Discretion?
Not automatic — here’s where the legal process and discretion come in:

• Deportation is not instantaneous. The student typically has the right to a hearing before an immigration judge.
• The judge can exercise discretion, depending on:
  • Severity of the violation
  • Student’s history and good faith
  • Whether the violation was minor or accidental
  • Whether any waivers or remedies are available

So while unauthorized work makes a student deportable, it does not guarantee deportation. A judge can weigh the circumstances and may grant voluntary departure, reinstatement, or other forms of relief in rare cases.
————_

As you can see in the above description, the major difference between your case and any immigration case is that immigration law is not so black & white. If you don’t pay income tax, you will be subject to a fine. If you continue to refuse to pay, you will face jail time.
However, with immigration, there are numerous loopholes. For example, since Musk had violated his F-1 status, the judge could have deported him. Alternatively, the same judge could have granted a delay and allowed the person to proceed with applying for an O-1 (extraordinary ability) visa or any pathway to permanent residency.

The same immigration law, but different results, depending on the judge (and the current Administration)

 

[92tide]

this seems pretty bad,

but that’s probably just because i see everything as “orange man bad” /s

Migrants at Ice jail in Miami made to kneel to eat ‘like dogs’, report alleges

Incident in which migrants were shackled with hands tied one of succession of alleged abuses at jails in Florida

www.theguardian.com

 

[AWRTR]

I’ve got ChatGPT to answer on Musk’s specific case to save me time to write it:
```
Is Unauthorized Work a Deportable Offense?
Yes — unauthorized employment is considered a status violation, and:

• Violating F-1 status by working without proper authorization (such as CPT or OPT) can render the student deportable under U.S. immigration law.
• The law gives U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) the authority to initiate removal (deportation) proceedings based on this.

Is It Automatically a Deportation, or Is There Judicial Discretion?
Not automatic — here’s where the legal process and discretion come in:

• Deportation is not instantaneous. The student typically has the right to a hearing before an immigration judge.
• The judge can exercise discretion, depending on:
  • Severity of the violation
  • Student’s history and good faith
  • Whether the violation was minor or accidental
  • Whether any waivers or remedies are available

So while unauthorized work makes a student deportable, it does not guarantee deportation. A judge can weigh the circumstances and may grant voluntary departure, reinstatement, or other forms of relief in rare cases.
————_

As you can see in the above description, the major difference between your case and any immigration case is that immigration law is not so black & white. If you don’t pay income tax, you will be subject to a fine. If you continue to refuse to pay, you will face jail time.
However, with immigration, there are numerous loopholes. For example, since Musk had violated his F-1 status, the judge could have deported him. Alternatively, the same judge could have granted a delay and allowed the person to proceed with applying for an O-1 (extraordinary ability) visa or any pathway to permanent residency.

The same immigration law, but different results, depending on the judge (and the current Administration)

You shrunk my example down to one case involving Musk. I’m speaking about the lack of immigration enforcement overall we have seen from the last administration. My example holds up. If people can just blow off court dates and disappear, which over 500,000 did just that during the Biden administration, and we should just leave them because they are someone’s grandma or dad or whatever then once again why do I have to obey laws that are victimless crimes like income tax evasion?

 

[JDCrimson]

I say this somewhat facetiously but we outsourced space travel to Musk and a few others to make it more efficient. We could probably do the same by outsourcing immigration administration to Amazon and/or Chik-fil-a. If the occurrence of non-compliance is greater than compliance you have a procedure problem. Star ID and similar technology making visa apps and checks easy would go along way to make the system work better.

With a better much more customer oriented system, I could see throwing the book at people for non-compliance with an easy system.

 

[AWRTR]

I say this somewhat facetiously but we outsourced space travel to Musk and a few others to make it more efficient. We could probably do the same by outsourcing immigration administration to Amazon and/or Chik-fil-a. If the occurrence of non-compliance is greater than compliance you have a procedure problem. Star ID and similar technology making visa apps and checks easy would go along way to make the system work better.

With a better much more customer oriented system, I could see throwing the book at people for non-compliance with an easy system.

If they enter the country illegally or make an asylum claim they shouldn't be released until their case is adjudicated. Let's also be honest the majority of asylum claims are nonsense.

 

[some_al_fan]

If they enter the country illegally or make an asylum claim they shouldn't be released until their case is adjudicated. Let's also be honest the majority of asylum claims are nonsense.

Why do you want to pay for their food, housing, and medical expenses, since case adjudication can take a long time?

 

[AWRTR]

Why do you want to pay for their food, housing, and medical expenses, since case adjudication can take a long time?

It shouldn't take a long time, and if they know they will be held and likely not get in they won't come to begin with. See the border right now for more information.

 

[some_al_fan]

It shouldn't take a long time, and if they know they will be held and likely not get in they won't come to begin with. See the border right now for more information.

Current backlog of cases is several years

 

[AWRTR]

Current backlog of cases is several years

You once again missed the point of the post. If they know they will be held they won't come, and then you can work through the backlog. You also give them the option to withdraw the request and go home.

Then you could have a legit guest worker program that could function well. It probably wouldn't because we can't seem to run anything well no matter which party is in power.

 

[some_al_fan]

You once again missed the point of the post. If they know they will be held they won't come, and then you can work through the backlog. You also give them the option to withdraw the request and go home.

I get the point of the post - let’s build the barbed wire around the country and don’t allow anyone to come in. Let’s all forget that Albert Einstein and Henry Kissinger were once granted asylum in this country.

 

[AWRTR]

I get the point of the post - let’s build the barbed wire around the country and don’t allow anyone to come in. Let’s all forget that Albert Einstein and Henry Kissinger were once granted asylum in this country.

Once again you missed the end of the post. I followed by saying then we can have a real guest worker program that could be run well and bring people in above board, vetted, and with a system to follow. Doesn't that sound like a better plan? Because so far your idea seems to be more of the same and ignore the law.

You seem to be in the open borders camp of hey everyone come on in. That's not working and is a foolish idea.

 

[AWRTR]

I get the point of the post - let’s build the barbed wire around the country and don’t allow anyone to come in. Let’s all forget that Albert Einstein and Henry Kissinger were once granted asylum in this country.

Kissinger is probably a pretty bad example. That guy should have been left wherever he was.

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Remain in Mexico was a sound policy that worked. Of course, the census can’t count them down there and that’s a problem for one side of the aisle.