Indictments over Planned Parenthood videos announced

Jon

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I'm not sure why some of you think the state investigations are over...
they are not all over

they should be

but they're not because it is an election year and the people want blood even in States like Alabama where PP doesn't perform abortions. But we can't have them sickos giving out birth control either can we? People might have Sex! Or, gasp, get treatment for an STD or a mamogram

the horror!
 

92tide

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If there are laws in place preventing the sale, for profit, of human tissue (which there are), and there are laws in placer requiring proper disposal of human remains (which there are), and there is evidence in the video that either of those laws was broken, (which there was), why would one not support an investigation of potential crimes? If this were something other than abortion, such an investigation would be noncontroversial.

And Planned Parenthood doesn't conduct mammograms.
they didn't sell the tissue for profit.
 

CajunCrimson

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they didn't sell the tissue for profit ;).
FIFY

1st of all - Libs - don't believe in profit.....
2nd of all - Barter can be a "classy" alternative to "profit" = hence the entire "I'm getting a BMW" portion of one of the videos
3rd of all - Libs - don't believe in profit.....
 

92tide

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Well that's the question in the investigation, isn't it? In the videos, they are haggling over the price. If they were simply going to sell it for cost, they'd just sell it for cost. The videos would be much shorter in that case. Also in the videos, they talk about changing the way they perform the abortions in order to preserve certain organs, including the brain. (In one, one of the PP people says that "Everybody wants livers.") In another, one of the VPs says that they've given the power to negotiate prices to their affiliates on advice of their lawyers, in order to keep the national group's hands clean.

And let me also say, what they were doing may be legal, may not. Frankly, I think we get too hung up on that question. What they are doing is disgusting, immoral, and a national shame. How anyone can watch the videos and come away with any other conclusion is beyond me.
the pro-life movement has long played on emotions to further their cause

about those videos, they are bunk

link

The undercover Planned Parenthood videos that spurred a congressional investigation were so severely manipulated that they wouldn't hold up in court, according to an analysis by three teams of forensic experts.

Planned Parenthood hired independent research firm Fusion GPS to investigate the validity of the first five "sting" videos released by the Center for Medical Progress, an anti-abortion group.

Glenn Simpson, a partner at the firm and a former Wall Street Journal reporter, assembled three teams of neutral experts to comb through the tapes using special video software. He said the teams found that all of the videos analyzed -- even the supposedly "full," unedited footage the CMP released -- were missing large sections of time and misleadingly altered so that separate conversations appeared to take place in an uninterrupted take. Moreover, the forensic team found that the transcripts CMS released with the videos were frequently erroneous.

"It appears they commit what I would call 'wishful thinking' about what was said," Simpson told reporters Thursday.

---

The videos show Planned Parenthood doctors discussing the donation of fetal tissue after abortions -- a legal practice. But the CMP edited the videos into episodes that make it look as though Planned Parenthood is selling fetal parts for profit and changing abortion methods to deliver intact specimens. The family planning provider strongly denies both charges, and five separate state investigations into Planned Parenthood have cleared the organization of any wrongdoing.
 

CajunCrimson

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Vanderbilt is a non-for-profit School, unless I'm mistaken.....

They get millions of dollars from the SEC Athletics agreement. So, the rule is, at the end of the year, your books have to be zero.

I'm guessing, that the parts were sold for profit.....but, once you back out expenses.....overhead, salaries, etc.....the books show "zero" -- but since the employees received "bonuses" -- PP didn't profit, but their staff did....through payroll.

The ole shuck and jive
 

92tide

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Vanderbilt is a non-for-profit School, unless I'm mistaken.....

They get millions of dollars from the SEC Athletics agreement. So, the rule is, at the end of the year, your books have to be zero.

I'm guessing, that the parts were sold for profit.....but, once you back out expenses.....overhead, salaries, etc.....the books show "zero" -- but since the employees received "bonuses" -- PP didn't profit, but their staff did....through payroll.

The ole shuck and jive
im sure that since you have imagined that scenario, that must be how it is.

from one of the previous posts

Federal law allows clinics to be reimbursed for costs “associated with the transportation, implantation, processing preservation, quality control, or storage of human fetal tissue” for research purposes
 

CajunCrimson

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im sure that since you have imagined that scenario, that must be how it is.

from one of the previous posts
My imagination has little to do with this. I didn't see anything in your "Federal law allows" quote that mentioned "selling" of human fetal tissue - for research purposes....

You'd think you would see the word "donation" of human fetal tissue.....if that was the business they were in.....but I didn't see that word either.

Perhaps I'm sharing the imagination of 100,000,000 others......
 

92tide

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My imagination has little to do with this. I didn't see anything in your "Federal law allows" quote that mentioned "selling" of human fetal tissue - for research purposes....

You'd think you would see the word "donation" of human fetal tissue.....if that was the business they were in.....but I didn't see that word either.

Perhaps I'm sharing the imagination of 100,000,000 others......
you actually said "i'm guessing" then laid out speculation as to what you thought happened. you're entire post was your imagination.

have fun in your rabbit hole
 

92tide

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Jon

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If there are laws in place preventing the sale, for profit, of human tissue (which there are), and there are laws in placer requiring proper disposal of human remains (which there are), and there is evidence in the video that either of those laws was broken, (which there was), why would one not support an investigation of potential crimes? If this were something other than abortion, such an investigation would be noncontroversial.
but the "evidence" in those videos was found lacking, as you know because it has been investigated by different Republican administrations and their appointees all over the country and we still have 0, Zero, Nada, No indictments, during an election year when several GOP candidates have made major headway on this issue. IF there was any evidence it would have been found, announced and screamed to the hilltops. It hasn't because there isn't any

And Planned Parenthood doesn't conduct mammograms.
interesting, I checked and this is correct. I took that one on face value, never needing a mamogram myself. Still it does't discount all the great work they do (and as a reminder less than 3% of what they do is abortion)



Planned Parenthood’s annual report shows it gave 487,029 breast exam services for women in 2013. This is a clinical breast exam, checking for changes or lumps in women’s breasts. If the doctor finds something abnormal or worth checking out, the patient is referred for a mammogram, which requires X-rays given at a licensed radiology facility. Planned Parenthood does administer Pap tests and HPV tests, both of which screen for cervical cancer.
 

CajunCrimson

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you actually said "i'm guessing" then laid out speculation as to what you thought happened. you're entire post was your imagination.

have fun in your rabbit hole
Do you believe the videos? Just curious. Do you believe that baby parts were sold? Either for profit, or for cost....do you believe the sales happened?

Do you also believe that the people who were discussing the sales, were real? Do you believe that they were being honest about what they were saying?

Because if you believe what you were seeing is real....then, perhaps you need to pull your head out of your hole.....and deal with the reality of the situation. Winning a debate on "semantics" or trying to find alternate definitions of words, or trying to interpret what the PP employees "meant" -- doesn't change the fact that these people killed unborn babies, sold their parts to pay for "costs of operation" of PP, and laughed about it.

I know what side I am on......and I know what side you are on.....on this topic.
 

mittman

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Well that's the question in the investigation, isn't it? In the videos, they are haggling over the price. If they were simply going to sell it for cost, they'd just sell it for cost. The videos would be much shorter in that case. Also in the videos, they talk about changing the way they perform the abortions in order to preserve certain organs, including the brain. (In one, one of the PP people says that "Everybody wants livers.") In another, one of the VPs says that they've given the power to negotiate prices to their affiliates on advice of their lawyers, in order to keep the national group's hands clean.

And let me also say, what they were doing may be legal, may not. Frankly, I think we get too hung up on that question. What they are doing is disgusting, immoral, and a national shame. How anyone can watch the videos and come away with any other conclusion is beyond me.
Couldn't have said it better.

I have much less of a problem spending my tax dollars on the litigation than I do with tax dollars in any way funding this organization. I have NO problem with the people who did the videos. The full ones are available now if you have the stomach to sit through the minutia. I spent the time to watch the cut up and the full of one of them. That was enough. At leas on that one they got the important part right, and IMO they in no way misrepresented what was going on with the editing. I don't care whether what they did is deemed technically legal or not this is beyond just crass and unfortunate language.
 

92tide

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Do you believe the videos? Just curious. Do you believe that baby parts were sold? Either for profit, or for cost....do you believe the sales happened?

Do you also believe that the people who were discussing the sales, were real? Do you believe that they were being honest about what they were saying?

Because if you believe what you were seeing is real....then, perhaps you need to pull your head out of your hole.....and deal with the reality of the situation. Winning a debate on "semantics" or trying to find alternate definitions of words, or trying to interpret what the PP employees "meant" -- doesn't change the fact that these people killed unborn babies, sold their parts to pay for "costs of operation" of PP, and laughed about it.

I know what side I am on......and I know what side you are on.....on this topic.
i think you need to take a valium.
 

chanson78

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There is no way that this issue will ever be able to be discussed without emotion. With both sides having such heightened emotional states any information presented by the other side bolstering their claims is immediately poisoned purely by where it came from.
 

Jon

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Couldn't have said it better.

I have much less of a problem spending my tax dollars on the litigation than I do with tax dollars in any way funding this organization. I have NO problem with the people who did the videos. The full ones are available now if you have the stomach to sit through the minutia. I spent the time to watch the cut up and the full of one of them. That was enough. At leas on that one they got the important part right, and IMO they in no way misrepresented what was going on with the editing. I don't care whether what they did is deemed technically legal or not this is beyond just crass and unfortunate language.

so you agree that it was technically legal but you are still ok with us wasting money litigating because you just don't like planned parenthood

got it

by the way, feel like taking a stab (pun very much intended) on how many Abortions Planned Parenthood has Prevented during their existence by making birth control so readily available? they claim that number to be 216,000 a year by the way, which is probably high so cut it in half or by 75% and call it 58 Thousand a year. Not that anyone on the "pro life" side cares because as we all know this isn't about "life" its about keeping people from enjoying sex and the best way to do that is to keep the consequences heavy, especially on women
 

mittman

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so you agree that it was technically legal but you are still ok with us wasting money litigating because you just don't like planned parenthood

got it
I didn't say that, for the same reasons BiB stated, I don't think it was in any way shape or form legal. If they were doing this at cost, they would have stated the cost. There would be no negotiation. IMO it is simple as that.

What I SAID was that whether or not it is DEEMED technically legal it is beyond just crass and unfortunante.


by the way, feel like taking a stab (pun very much intended) on how many Abortions Planned Parenthood has Prevented during their existence by making birth control so readily available? they claim that number to be 216,000 a year by the way, which is probably high so cut it in half or by 75% and call it 58 Thousand a year. Not that anyone on the "pro life" side cares because as we all know this isn't about "life" its about keeping people from enjoying sex and the best way to do that is to keep the consequences heavy, especially on women
Birth control is cheap and easy in this country. I have a problem with paying for it for others. We can agree to disagree with where the educational focus should be, but just as you would have a problem with federally funding an abstinence based education program, I have problems with federally funding theirs. I don't think either are particularly effective outside a nurturing environment.
 
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Jon

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I didn't say that, for the same reasons BiB stated, I don't think it was in any way shape or form legal. If they were doing this at cost, they would have stated the cost. There would be no negotiation. IMO it is simple as that.

What I SAID was that whether or not it is DEEMED technically legal it is beyond just crass and unfortunante.




Birth control is cheap and easy in this country. I have a problem with paying for it for others. We can agree to disagree with where the educational focus should be, but just as you would have a problem with federally funding an abstinence based education program, I have problems with federally funding theirs. I don't think either are particularly effective outside a nurturing environment.
and you may not "think" its legal but it is. You want to change that, change it. You should know though that:

A) abortions will continue to happen, whether they are legal or not. A recent study I saw showed that abortion rates barely even fluctuate based on availability or legality. Women are crossing the border in TX to buy abortifacients because TX has made it hard. Did this solve anything? No

B) great medical research is being done with fetal tissue (Including by GOP Candidates such as Dr Carson himself who used fetal tissue in his own research)

I would have absolutely no problem funding a federal abstinence program if they actually worked. But the evidence is in and it is incontrovertible those programs are massive, massive failures. They don't just not work they actually make things worse, it has been proven again and again. Why not try homeopathy? I mean it doesn't work either but some people believe that crap too.
 
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mittman

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I would have absolutely no problem funding a federal abstinence program if they actually worked. But the evidence is in and it is incontrovertible those programs are massive, massive failures. They don't just not work they actually make things worse, it has been proven again and again. Why not try homeopathy? I mean it doesn't work either but some people believe that crap too.


I guess you are a statist :)

My point was that I don't want to federally fund either, but you chose the point that really gets us off the point of the thread. The litigation has nothing to do with this, and the funding of other programs part of it should be taken up with the legislature. Just another reason for me NOT to vote for HRC or Sanders.
 
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Tide1986

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im sure that since you have imagined that scenario, that must be how it is.

from one of the previous posts
Imagination or not, I'll recast Cajun's example.

I think it's safe to assume that PP employs personnel to perform abortions. Whether or not human tissue is harvested during an abortion probably doesn't materially affect the number of staff needed to perform abortions. If, however, human tissue can be harvested during the abortion process, PP may now offset some portion of the cost of its abortion personnel and funnel the savings into other activities, which in effect is a form of profiting from the harvest. This explains why abortion personnel might alter their abortive procedures to preserve tissue and why PP might even be willing to bonus people on the volume of women they sign up for the harvest.

Anyway, PP was so convinced of the righteousness of its position that it has decided late last year to stop requiring "reimbursement" for harvesting human tissue.
 
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