Bama Game Thread: Official PostGame Thread - Bama @ FSU...

[KrAzY3]

Watching that game last night made me think maybe Milroe wasn't the problem.

I always felt like he was the scapegoat. That doesn't mean he play wasn't an issue, but what if we had it backwards? What if Milroe actually covered up for obvious issues when he did have big games?

For instance if you replace him with Ty last year, what would the record actually be? I'd wager Alabama loses to Georgia for instance, but what if that flips another outcome? How does the LSU game for instance look without Milroe absolutely dominating them on the ground? Mind you, may be Alabama wins another one they lost, but it could have been a 5 loss team instead.

Not defending Milroe's issues mind you, but it became easy to just blame all the problems on him and also ignore the fact that he might have bailed the team out a couple times. I mean put Milroe out there against FSU for example, perhaps he takes over with his legs and Alabama still wins... doesn't fix the core issues but it wasn't always bad Milroe, sometimes he could carry the team.

 

[CB72]

Still just dumbfounded how this dude has been able to beat all these good head coaches and then just flops out against the doormats.

 

[denver]

Still just dumbfounded how this dude has been able to beat all these good head coaches and then just flops out against the doormats.

Maybe the players get up for the big games....but fail to get up for the other ones...it seems that way...and Deboer seems to be very reserved and not a firebrand

 

[DzynKingRTR]

He needs to be asked directly about the lack of effort captured on film by a lot of the players.

how about the lack of effort by himself. I am still hot about him having zero reaction to the personal foul on 3rd down

 

[CB72]

Maybe the players get up for the big games....but fail to get up for the other ones...it seems that way...and Deboer seems to be very reserved and not a firebrand

Reminds me of CNS getting irritated at press interview and saying something like "all yall think these small games (against lesser opponents) dont matter try losing 1 and see what happens. "

Something like that

 

[BAMARICH]

After having time to cool off I’ll say that I’m going to support this team and its coaches. What else can we do? It’s obvious we love Alabama or we wouldn’t sit and celebrate, elaborate, cheer the wins, and are sometimes sickened by a loss. Hopefully, we can turn this around. What else are we going to do: cheer for the barn.?

Best case scenario will be that CKD follows the path Ryan Day blazed last year. It all starts fresh today - we’ll see if he’s up for it.

 

[Tideflyer]

Best case scenario will be that CKD follows the path Ryan Day blazed last year. It all starts fresh today - we’ll see if he’s up for it.

Indeed we will. Aspects of last season and the FSU game have me asking the question, “ Is it too early to concern ourselves with a descent into mediocrity? “

 

[graydogg85]

I remember when we lost to Mizzou to start the season and then went on to win the rest of our games, ending with a win over PSU in the Sugar bowl. We looked really bad against Mizzou. We had a really good coach back in those days but can't remember who right now.

It's the first game so no matter how bad it looked it was the first game.

FSU was an absolutely desperate team, a team that specifically blamed Bama for a lot of their problems, and we cruised into town with the big head and a ridiculously relaxed attitude. Under CKD, we've been very bad on the road.

Our fundamentals on defense looked bad last night. Every time a player attacked, and then hesitated, I was looking around to see if CNS was going to come screaming onto the field. Unfortunately, CNS wasn't there to offer any coaching tips. When a big guy or a linebacker hesitates like that he no longer really has any positive impact on the play...he makes it easy for that slick little QB to ignore him and start looking for the next would-be tackler.

We need to focus on receivers that can catch the ball. Drops were huge last night.

Ty made a couple bad decisions and his passing was not nearly as crisp as I expected. He did play with great effort without much help from his OL. Been stated often but I really wish we had got him some meaningful laying time last year. I'd be interested to hear opinions on how Ty did in the pocket...did he bail too soon on some occasions?

I thought the rotation was just too deep. Perhaps we thought we had the luxury of auditioning a lot of players. Seemed like too many WRs, DBs, RBs. I'd expect to see that really trimmed down.

The injured guys being out really hurt, which I wasn't expecting. Really thought we had depth at those spots. If we had depth they never stepped up.

I'm not giving up yet but I'd like us to start looking at consultants/advisors we could bring in to help the defense. Just better fundamentals would be huge.

Agreed.

Not defending the loss, and especially the way we lost, but it’s not a death sentence for the season. If FSU turns out to be what I think they will be at the end of the season, this is a 14-point road loss to probably a top 15-20 team. The 2010 Bama squad had one of those and was still a 10-win team that was a couple of plays away from going to Atlanta.

The next two weeks will tell us a lot about what this team is made of, and my gut tells me they are better than yesterday indicated. It was a bad loss, but maybe not as bad as it looks right now considering all factors (see my previous post in this thread).

If they struggle or (heaven forbid) lose one of the next two, then it’s probably time for a serious discussion about this staff having what it takes, but I don’t think we are there yet.

 

[KrAzY3]

Still just dumbfounded how this dude has been able to beat all these good head coaches and then just flops out against the doormats.

Before the season I was tempted to do this big write up about SoS and how difficult it is to manage a hard season.

Basically though, you can think of it a bit like fighting on multiple fronts. Yes, you only play one game at a time, but how you divide and use your resources will never be completely equal. Saban excelled at not overlooking lesser foes, any military no matter how great can lose a battle to a much weaker foe if they underestimate them.

DeBoer seems to devote his resources more to the bigger foes, but his track record clearly shows he sometimes is unprepared for weaker ones. It's somewhat antithetical to how Saban prepared, but it isn't without any merit. He does win some big games, but at great expense...

 

[teamplayer]

We talked all offseason about getting back to the Alabama standard. guess It was just talk

We definitely seem to be more about flapping our gums and practicing end zone dances than about playing tough and making smart plays that win games. We are soft and make bad decisions that cause penalties and allow big plays. That's not a good combo.

 

[tusks_n_raider]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1962173285249995140

Bad numbers.

Not even sure it’s accurate because LT was getting beat repeatedly.

Ty must have got a few passes off before it counts as ‘pressure’.

Kid had no help from the OL

 

[Bamabuzzard]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1962173285249995140

Bad numbers.

Not even sure it’s accurate because LT was getting beat repeatedly.

Ty must have got a few passes off before it counts as ‘pressure’.

Kid had no help from the OL

Like I said last night, if Proctor is still considered a first rounder then I'm Batman. He's atrocious and was last season as well and to think the guts. Behind him are worse is scary.

 

[gtgilbert]

You wouldn’t expect this from Bray. I mean he was one of the lowest rated kids on the team coming out of HS. Someone made the comment Earl Little played physical, Bray Hubbard played soft. This wasn’t the Bray Hubbard we saw last year.

I get that it's not a great look for Hubbard with that effort, but his assignment was outside the OT on the other side of the field and he lined up on the opposite hash and just barely deeper than the LBs. At the snap, he was moving toward the outside of the hash to that furthest outside gap. Even at full tilt, he'd be really hard pressed to get through traffic from outside the opposite hash to a play that crossed the LOS at the nearside numbers. He and lawson clearly had gap responsibility on that side and both were watching the guys coming into their areas first (the guy in motion, and then the fake handoff to the RB). They actually played their assignments, as did Latham on the edge.

I'm looking more at Morgan, Renaud and Saab on that play, and a little at Jefferson. Renaud was totally engulfed and lost edge containment despite starting the play on the OT's outside shoulder to the CENTER that pulled and somehow got across his face and to his outside shoulder. Morgan totally mucked up his run fit and was still sprinting back like he was going to be the deep S even after the ball was snapped and was totally out of position resulting in the awful approach. Jefferson was slow to react due to all the candy and then tried to slide under a block. Saab was the last line of defense didn't make the tackle there at the end. There was an obvious holding no-call against Brown.

to my earlier point, about how much subbing and running deep into the rotation we do. We're 10 minutes left in the 2nd period in a tie game and on this play we were running a #2 DE, a #2 or 3 OLB (Latham), a #2 or #3 Husky, and a #3 DT (Simmons). That's a lot of subs for a single play, especially that early in the game. The backup DE and Husky both got abused on the play and since they were on the same side of the field it cost us.

 

[BamaFanInTally]

Every coach on our team now should be given the option: Donate 1/12th of your salary for this pitiful effort yesterday, or hit the road.

 

[Windsortide]

I hate saying it but we got out schemed and out coached. This one hurts.

 

[bamaga]

I get that it's not a great look for Hubbard with that effort, but his assignment was outside the OT on the other side of the field and he lined up on the opposite hash and just barely deeper than the LBs. At the snap, he was moving toward the outside of the hash to that furthest outside gap. Even at full tilt, he'd be really hard pressed to get through traffic from outside the opposite hash to a play that crossed the LOS at the nearside numbers. He and lawson clearly had gap responsibility on that side and both were watching the guys coming into their areas first (the guy in motion, and then the fake handoff to the RB). They actually played their assignments, as did Latham on the edge.

I'm looking more at Morgan, Renaud and Saab on that play, and a little at Jefferson. Renaud was totally engulfed and lost edge containment despite starting the play on the OT's outside shoulder to the CENTER that pulled and somehow got across his face and to his outside shoulder. Morgan totally mucked up his run fit and was still sprinting back like he was going to be the deep S even after the ball was snapped and was totally out of position resulting in the awful approach. Jefferson was slow to react due to all the candy and then tried to slide under a block. Saab was the last line of defense didn't make the tackle there at the end. There was an obvious holding no-call against Brown.

to my earlier point, about how much subbing and running deep into the rotation we do. We're 10 minutes left in the 2nd period in a tie game and on this play we were running a #2 DE, a #2 or 3 OLB (Latham), a #2 or #3 Husky, and a #3 DT (Simmons). That's a lot of subs for a single play, especially that early in the game. The backup DE and Husky both got abused on the play and since they were on the same side of the field it cost us.

I get it, and maybe he was tired . I harped on assignenment football when playing Malzhan’s offense, and he was doing just that, but after the ball crossed the line and the ball carrier was navigating defenders. Instead of jogging he could have accelerated and taken a deep angle and cut the guy off before he got to the end zone. It may have been a 25 yard gain, but it wouldn’t have been a TD. Bray is pretty fast, but halfway through the play he was runinning just a little faster than an FSU oLineman

 

[81usaf92]

I always felt like he was the scapegoat. That doesn't mean he play wasn't an issue, but what if we had it backwards? What if Milroe actually covered up for obvious issues when he did have big games?

For instance if you replace him with Ty last year, what would the record actually be? I'd wager Alabama loses to Georgia for instance, but what if that flips another outcome? How does the LSU game for instance look without Milroe absolutely dominating them on the ground? Mind you, may be Alabama wins another one they lost, but it could have been a 5 loss team instead.

Not defending Milroe's issues mind you, but it became easy to just blame all the problems on him and also ignore the fact that he might have bailed the team out a couple times. I mean put Milroe out there against FSU for example, perhaps he takes over with his legs and Alabama still wins... doesn't fix the core issues but it wasn't always bad Milroe, sometimes he could carry the team.

Oklahoma and Tennessee were very much about Milroe. Again both Ty and Milroe were incorrect answers to the same question but we decided to go 3 years into trying to answer the question “Who is the guy that can cover up bad defensive hires”

 

[bamajas]

Thinking about this game this morning, it occurred to me that it went exactly the opposite of what I expected. It was almost like they traded uniforms.

Their offense was solid and had numerous explosive plays that broke any momentum we had on defense.

Their defense was aggressive, chasing our QB all over the field on every pass play.

They looked focused and played with intensity and confidence. They played like a team that was ****ed off by their preseason. ready to start the climb up the charts.

The above is what I was expecting to see from the Tide but, instead, we played the way I expected the Noles to play. Very disappointing.

Pate had a similar take, "Which team was the one who brought back its staff and returned a lot of starters?" and "Which team replaced staffs on both sides of the ball and brought in 50 transfers?"

 

[bamajas]

For the record, I am not advocating showing Coach DeBoer the door.
That said, here are the figures:
"If DeBoer is fired 'without cause,' he would earn 90% of his remaining deal in monthly installments through the end of his contract term. He's currently eight months into the second year of his deal, which would mean his buyout if he's fired during the regular season is just about $63 million (90% of the remaining amount). If he's fired on Dec. 1, 2025, it would be approximately $60 million."

First, well done Jimmy Sexton at representing your clients.
Second, the structure of that (90% of salary in monthly installments even if fired) means two things:
1. You do not save a lot of money depending on when you let the guy go. It is not $50 million today and $20 million October 1st). It seems like a glide path to zero. When coach gets to 50% of his contract remaining, his buyout is 45%. At 25% of the contract, 22.5% of the buyout.
2. Second, only someone with an inside look at the finances of the program can make that determination as to what Alabama can pay.

At some point you start working your way down a list of bad options. If this lackadaisical play on the field continues, good players will seek greener pastures, losses pile up, more players leave. 7-5 this year, 6-6 next 4-8 in 2027 (for the sake of argument). If you save the buyout by simply not renewing the contract, players know there will be a coaching change so they do not come at all.

If you let a coach go too early, then you are paying multiple head coaches (like UTe and the Barn were doing when they were on the head coach roller coaster).

Like I said above, "Working our way down a list of bad options."

In conclusion, I am not advocating firing coach DeBoer. Not yet.

Not to mention whether the guy who hired DeBoer gets to hire the next guy

 

[KrAzY3]

Not to mention whether the guy who hired DeBoer gets to hire the next guy

I don't think Greg Byrne has done that bad a job as a whole, he did hire Nate Oats after all. I think he might have made the mistake of treating the Alabama football job like the basketball one. He could afford to take a shot on unproven at that level in basketball, but it was a much greater risk in football where the resources and expectation are both higher.

Mind you, he finds the next Nick Saban or Urban Myer he looks like a genius, but I think he might have overthought it a bit.The downside of going with a less proven coach is you might find the next Charlie Strong or Scott Frost. He took a big swing and the problem is he did it with the bases loaded.

We'll just have to see how this plays out though...