Regional jet crashes into Potomac River near Reagan National Airport

[Bazza]

Sounding more and more like the fault lies with the Helo............pretty good breakdown here.........

 

[Bazza]

The helicopter's "advanced tracking system" was turned off per this article. That can't be good.....

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/key-safety-system-off-army-helicopter-that-collided-with-american-airlines-jet-2025-02-06/

WASHINGTON, Feb 6 (Reuters) - A key safety system was turned off on the U.S. Army helicopter that collided with an American Airlines regional jet last week near Washington's Reagan Airport, killing 67.

Senate Commerce Committee chair Ted Cruz told reporters the Black Hawk helicopter had turned off its automatic dependent surveillance-broadcast (ADS-B), which is permitted for military aircraft.

"This was a training mission, so there was no compelling national security reason for ADS-B to be turned off," Cruz said after a briefing from the National Transportation Safety Board and Federal Aviation Administration.

 

[Tidewater]

But fwiw the Pilot was apparently well trained and qualified despite the initial narrative.

"She had been in the top 20 per cent of Army ROTC cadets nationwide and picked for a prestigious role as a White House social aide. Her awards include the Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal, National Defense Service Medal and Army Service Ribbon."

Every topic is immediately politicized these days. It sucks, but that is how it is.
Top 20% simply means she was a DMG. No slouch, but this says little about her flying skills. The Army Service Ribbon you get for finishing Basic Training. The National Defense Service Medal you get for just being in the Army during the period. An ARCOM is an individual award, but that is something you get for finishing a tour. I got my first ARCOM when I PCSed out of the 101st Airborne. It is fairly standard and just means "you did not screw up while here." An AAM is something you get for performing well during a week-long exercise.

She achieved the rank of Captain, having twice served as a Platoon Leader and as a Company Executive Officer… With more than 450 hours of flight time, she earned certification as a pilot-in-command after extensive testing by the most senior and experienced pilots in her battalion"

450 is a good bit of flying, especially for a conventional forces CPT (warrant officers in the Army tend to fly more than commissioned officers). I'm no pilot, but I was an Air Ops officer in an infantry battalion and I spent a lot of time (~300 hours) in the back of Blackhawks of the old 158th Aviation Battalion. PIC is not a gimme. PIC means you passed a "check-ride" administered by a Senior Instructor Pilot (a senior warrant officer in your battalion). In a Check ride, the SIP will throw some curve balls at the testing pilot to see how he/she deals with it. An old crusty warrant would resist giving a passing grade to a woman just because someone in the chain of command told him "he wanted her to pass."
Bottom line, she was probably at least a decent helicopter pilot up to this point. Maybe quite good.

 

[Elefantman]

 

[Tidewater]

An update from the cockpit voice recorders.

i've used AM radios and only one person at at a time can talk. That is why you end your own transmission with "over" to the other station knows you are done and then they can speak. The flip side is that is someone else is transmitting, and you key your mike, you are "stepping on" him and can't hear what he is saying.

 

[Bazza]

Watched the NSTB presser and thought they/she did a good job of updating the public on where we're at with the investigation.

I think it's natural for everyone to want to point their finger at someone/something to blame and I think it is important we find out who/what to assign blame to.

We heard a few things during the presser that hinted at where the blame may ultimately land.

The altitude thing seems like the biggest culprit to me but they aren't going to go that far until they do more research, so we'll see.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Watched the NSTB presser and thought they/she did a good job of updating the public on where we're at with the investigation.

I think it's natural for everyone to want to point their finger at someone/something to blame and I think it is important we find out who/what to assign blame to.

We heard a few things during the presser that hinted at where the blame may ultimately land.

The altitude thing seems like the biggest culprit to me but they aren't going to go that far until they do more research, so we'll see.

I think the mistake we make as humans (in things like this) is our desire for a clear single cause that can be blamed for tragedies. But few things this catastrophic result from a single cause.

I've stated earlier my BIL (a C-130 pilot for over 20 years) took the initial reports (and his knowledge of aeronautical engineering, which is what his degree is) and his first thought was disproportionate blame on the helo pilot(s), airline pilot(s), and even the tower. In other words, even one wanting to say 48% on the helo, 23% on someone else, etc - it appeared to his investigation eyes like there isn't a single cause.

It seems to be obviously true that the helo was too high.

But the WHY is the part we don't know yet.

They'll reassemble the aircraft and we'll find out probably sometime next year or 2027.

 

[Elefantman]

NTSB Makes Urgent Recommendations on Helicopter Traffic Near Reagan National Airport

www.ntsb.gov

 

[Its On A Slab]

With the number of reported close calls in the airspace over the past several years, I am surprised something like this didn't happen sooner.

 

[Elefantman]

Anyone with a logical mind could see this was an accident waiting to happen. But no one was willing to make the hard call and tell all the DC big wigs they would have to Uber to get around town like the rest of us regular folks.

 

[Bamaro]

I still have to wonder why the Blackhawk wasn't where it should have been.

 

[Tidewater]

I still have to wonder why the Blackhawk wasn't where it should have been.

It was okay in the place it was. The problem was it was too high for that location. Altimeters use air pressure to measure how high the sensor is. Part of the pre-flight is to reset the altimeter. I think the commercial airliner was regulating its altitude electronically (on a glide path to landing), which is more accurate than air pressure.

To me, there are two questions.
1. Was the helicopter's altimeter set correctly or were they at the wrong altitude through pilot error?
2. Why on earth do we have a helicopter flight route that crosses a commercial airliner's approach path to Reagan Airport (even if differentiated in theory by altitude)?

 

[Its On A Slab]

It was okay in the place it was. The problem was it was too high for that location. Altimeters use air pressure to measure how high the sensor is. Part of the pre-flight is to reset the altimeter. I think the commercial airliner was regulating its altitude electronically (on a glide path to landing), which is more accurate than air pressure.

To me, there are two questions.
1. Was the helicopter's altimeter set correctly or were they at the wrong altitude through pilot error?
2. Why on earth do we have a helicopter flight route that crosses a commercial airliner's approach path to Reagan Airport (even if differentiated in theory by altitude)?

I wondered about both.

And if there is something akin to a black box on the helo, and would it indicate the altimeter question.

I saw a photo of the helo wreckage. If the black box were there, I would also wonder if it survived intact. There wasn't much left to pick thru.

 

[Elefantman]

It was okay in the place it was. The problem was it was too high for that location. Altimeters use air pressure to measure how high the sensor is. Part of the pre-flight is to reset the altimeter. I think the commercial airliner was regulating its altitude electronically (on a glide path to landing), which is more accurate than air pressure.

To me, there are two questions.
1. Was the helicopter's altimeter set correctly or were they at the wrong altitude through pilot error?
2. Why on earth do we have a helicopter flight route that crosses a commercial airliner's approach path to Reagan Airport (even if differentiated in theory by altitude)?

ATC conversation shows that the helicopter crew was provided the latest altimeter setting by the DCA tower controller. My understanding, the Blackhawk that was involved in the collision had an analog altimeter that could not be read by the flight data recorder (FDR). The FDR could see the radio altitude that provides the aircraft height above whatever surface it is flying over. Which is different then the altimeter which provides height above sea level. In this case, there is little difference since the Potomac river is not much above sea level.

The FDR on the CRJ can read altimeter setting, the altitude readout shown to the pilots, and radio altitude. Obviously, both aircraft were at the same altitude, which from most of the data available so far puts them close to 300 feet. One hundred feet higher then the helicopter should have been. Looking at the CRJ's distance from the runway threshold, it appears they were on the proper glide path and proper altitude for the approach. As far as your question #2: If both aircraft fail to see each other, now you are relying on 100 feet vertical separation to prevent metal to metal contact, which unfortunately wasn't adequate.

 

[Huckleberry]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/28/us/delta-military-jet-close-call-dca

Collision warning sounds in cockpit of Delta plane due to close call with Air Force jet near Reagan National Airport

A close call between a Delta Air Lines Airbus A319 taking off from Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport and a US Air Force T-38 jet, often used by the military for training, sounded alarms in the cockpit of the passenger plane Friday.

Delta 2983 was departing Reagan Airport around 3:15 p.m. and heading to Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport for a regularly scheduled flight.

Delta did not identify the other jet involved, but a review of tracking data from FlightRadar24 shows an Air Force T-38 jet flying past the Delta plane and DCA airport going more than 350 miles per hour at 800 feet. The military jet took off and landed at Langley Air Force Base, in Hampton, Virginia.

 

[Bazza]

New information reveals multiple safety failures the night an Army Black Hawk helicopter collided with a passenger jet, killing 67 people. It also appears the helicopter pilot failed to heed an instruction from her co-pilot and flight instructor, and the crew missed an order from air traffic control.

 

[jthomas666]

Those who do not study history...

https://www.npr.org/2025/05/03/nx-s1-5385802/dca-army-black-hawk-helicopter-airlines-abort-landings

U.S. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy says it's "unacceptable" that two commercial jetliners had to abort landings this week at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport because of an Army Black Hawk helicopter.

The incident Thursday afternoon occurred three months after 67 people were killed in a mid-air collision near the airport between a Black Hawk and a passenger jet.

 

[Tidewater]

Those who do not study history...

https://www.npr.org/2025/05/03/nx-s1-5385802/dca-army-black-hawk-helicopter-airlines-abort-landings

I have not heard a good reason why Blackhawks need to fly in that airpsace at all.
I suspect it is because Executive Department officials can't be bothered to drive to Reagan Airport and want helicopters to take them there.

It seems like driving a school bus through an artillery impact area and saying to yourself, "Meh, it will probably be okay."
Yeah, it probably will be okay, but one day, when an artillery round hits a school bus, you are going to have to explain why you let buses were drive through the artillery impact area.

 

[Bazza]

A segment that aired today with some commentary that might be of interest......

The National Transportation Safety Board began its three-day hearing into the deadly midair collision over Washington, D.C., in January.

Matthew "Whiz" Buckley, a former Navy fighter pilot, joins "Elizabeth Vargas Reports" and says, despite the tactical reasons for the incident, the primary cause of the tragedy falls on the instructor pilot in command of the helicopter.