i think i’ve made it pretty clear that i am talking about the republican party’s continued use of “sincerely held religious beliefs†as a cudgel.
SCOTUS and Roe - Part 3
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Probably could have saved a bunch of time saying that rather than replying to this specific story with:
"“deeply held religious beliefs†my butt. one of the biggest cop outs being used these days"
Seems pretty specific. Whatever.
Since when is someone else’s medical condition part of anyone’s religion? What is against his religion is murder. Someone has convinced this poor soul that he is aiding and abetting murder. Like most anti-abortionists, he is probably very undereducated on the topic. These people need to learn how to mind their own business.
I find it very self-serving to assume that opposition to abortion is out of ignorance or stupidity. I don't agree with the "life begins at conception" argument, but I understand why some people feel that way. They see abortion as the killing of a child. To dismiss this as stupidity is not constructive IMO.
My wife spent most of her RN career in labor and delivery. One of the hospitals where she works now as a CRNA is in L&D. She has witnessed the joyous miracle of birth and the tragedy of a stillborn baby more times than can be counted. She is Catholic and personally would likely have never considered an abortion, but she understands that for some parents, it is an unfortunate medical necessity.
I base my views on the subject largely on my wife's experiences. I would draw the line somewhere between the first and second trimester (defer to medical/ethical professionals) and only have an exception in case of some catastrophic medical issue (decided by a doctor, not a politician). Abortion as a form of birth control or for convenience doesn't sit well with me. An act of selfishness to counter an act of irresponsibility should not be celebrated. Unfortunately, on this, like many issues, only the extreme arguments (e.g., no abortion under any circumstance versus the abortion of a healthy baby at nine months) on both sides are promoted. It makes it impossible to reach a compromise. The tribes spend all their time yelling at each other instead of being thoughtful and productive on the issue. To the delight of the politicians.
My wife spent most of her RN career in labor and delivery. One of the hospitals where she works now as a CRNA is in L&D. She has witnessed the joyous miracle of birth and the tragedy of a stillborn baby more times than can be counted. She is Catholic and personally would likely have never considered an abortion, but she understands that for some parents, it is an unfortunate medical necessity.
I base my views on the subject largely on my wife's experiences. I would draw the line somewhere between the first and second trimester (defer to medical/ethical professionals) and only have an exception in case of some catastrophic medical issue (decided by a doctor, not a politician). Abortion as a form of birth control or for convenience doesn't sit well with me. An act of selfishness to counter an act of irresponsibility should not be celebrated. Unfortunately, on this, like many issues, only the extreme arguments (e.g., no abortion under any circumstance versus the abortion of a healthy baby at nine months) on both sides are promoted. It makes it impossible to reach a compromise. The tribes spend all their time yelling at each other instead of being thoughtful and productive on the issue. To the delight of the politicians.
Bill Burr has a bit about abortion and baking a cake, which I obviously can't link. Some wisdom with the humor.
You know, not every person who believes abortion is murder is a religious person. Religion in general has been spiraling down for decades now. Attendance is at an all-time low, but the line in the sand regarding abortion has never been more defined or more contested. This is a very emotionally-driven issue for people of all stripes whether they went to church yesterday or haven't seen the inside of one for 50 years.
I was just thinking of that bit. Dave Chappelle hit on it pretty good as well. Do your own googling and I'm sure you can find it. I thought they were both fantastic.
they may not be religious people per se, but they are holding a position that is pretty solidly religious in it's foundation, especially in the way that the framing of abortion=murder has been pushed into our culture in the last 40-50 years
I'm not familiar with that specific bit from Chappelle. But, he's one of my favorites, so I'll check it out when I get home.
All he did was resign as base commander so he didn’t have to sign off on people taking leave to get an abortion. “Not minding his own business†would be if he refused leave. He stepped aside so someone else would have to do it. He did the opposite of what the woman in Kentucky did.
So what? Judeo-Christian values have always been one of the foundational principles of Western Civilization. I don't have to be religious to appreciate how much it has advanced society.
abortion = murder is not a judeo-christian value. it is a right wing christian value. that framing has been used to push that very conservative version christian value into our culture as the norm in the past 50 years and it directly leads to poor health outcomes, among other things, for women in a way that does not advance society. i'm sure there are other answers to your question.
You're oversimplifying it like crazy - abortion has been debated by Christians for literally thousands of years.
not really. just because abortion has been debated by christians doesn't mean that abortion = murder is a judeo-christian value.
abortion = murder is a very extreme position. women who have abortions are not murderers. medical professionals who provide abortions are not murderers. people who support women's access to abortions are not supporting murder.
*eyeroll*
I'll leave you to keep calling everyone who disagrees with you a 'fundie' who hates women and uses their religion to oppress others, which is where this all started. Those broad brushes are never wrong.
That is strictly your opinion. People who disagree with you have a differing opinion. I tend not to get too deep into this particular subject because as a pragmatist, I must admit I'm not particularly interested in either one. Just two opinions in a sea of many, that's all.
Would we even be having this conversation if 98% of abortions weren't strictly about birth control? I kind of doubt it. In fact, I'm quite certain we wouldn't. It would just be routine medical procedure no one gave a crap about. I mean, I don't give a crap either way because what some suburban yenta did 30 years ago is unlikely to hold my attention for half a second. I only got dragged into the conversation because I felt like not all people who believe abortion is murder is supposedly some fundamentalist whack-job.
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