So ... Quarterbacks

[KrAzY3]

I just think BB is probably the best qb on the roster but CNS rarely lets a young guy learn on the fly.

Did you see Winston in his first NFL game? There's a reason not to let a guy learn on the fly. Barnett is a true freshman. A lot of people seem to be comparing a redshirt freshman to a true freshman, there's not a whole lot of true freshman that start, and I can't, like ever, think of one that lead a team to a national championship. Anyone have some examples for me?

And... that's one of the biggest issues here. Alabama is a title contender every year, they can't just let the QB learn on the job, because they can't afford the losses that come with that. A lot of programs can and do, but Alabama isn't one of them, but to reiterate this, you really can't just let this guy get crushed by SEC defenses as a true freshman. It's bordering sadistic.

Also... look at Auburn's QB. Very talented, a lot of people thought he was the next best thing. Clearly not ready yet and he's no true freshman. Barnett's abilities, and his being ready to handle all the nuances of SEC differences are worlds apart. It's an easy thing to say, it's just not a logical thing to say when you talk about putting him out there. He's not ready, I remember Mitch Mustain, I've seen it done before, it's generally a very bad idea.

I don't know if Coker and/or Bateman can really take things up a notch and get the job done, anymore than I know if Alabama can kick field goals. But, I'm fairly certain that Barnett, though I absolutely believe in his talent, needs to develop properly.

 

[WiliestBuckeye]

I watched the Alabama-Wisconsin game, and from my perspective, Coker? is an average QB on his best day, and I do not think he will be as good as Blake Simms was for you guys either, but I could be wrong, it was just one game. The loss of Amari Cooper does not help matters in regards to the passing attack, I'm sure, but even with a full season under his belt I don't see him being the guy that will carry you back to the national title game.

From reading the posts, I understand you guys have a really talented true freshman QB, and if the other 2 are not anything to write home about I would say maybe give the young guy a shot. I remember a few years ago back when the buckeyes went 6-7, the gap year between Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer, we had a QB start for us by the name of Joe Bauserman at the beginning of the season. Joe Bauserman is by far the worst QB I have ever seen at OSU, and perhaps the worst QB I have ever seen play the game of college football at the FBS level. Behind him was an uber talented true freshman by the name of Braxton Miller. From the first moment they put the kid in anyone with functioning eyeballs could tell you he should be starting, but it took a few games for the coaches to completely hand over the keys to him, and it cost us a few games that year.

The general lack of good coaching would go on to cost us quite a few more games, but the moral of the story is don't be afraid to put the new kid in and see what he is made of. He might not be ready yet, but then again he might surprise everyone. I think that Coker guy is going to have some growing pains of his own, and he does not have a high ceiling to look forward to at the end of the day. A much better idea might be to put the freshman in for a series or 2 and see what he has got, if you like what you see than I say stick with him, you have a much better team/coach than we did that year which should give him room to grow. I think a 1-loss Alabama squad would be a lock for the CFB playoff anyway, so you guys have some breathing room there to test things out and see what works.

 

[NationalTitles18]

I watched the Alabama-Wisconsin game, and from my perspective, Coker? is an average QB on his best day, and I do not think he will be as good as Blake Simms was for you guys either, but I could be wrong, it was just one game. The loss of Amari Cooper does not help matters in regards to the passing attack, I'm sure, but even with a full season under his belt I don't see him being the guy that will carry you back to the national title game.

From reading the posts, I understand you guys have a really talented true freshman QB, and if the other 2 are not anything to write home about I would say maybe give the young guy a shot. I remember a few years ago back when the buckeyes went 6-7, the gap year between Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer, we had a QB start for us by the name of Joe Bauserman at the beginning of the season. Joe Bauserman is by far the worst QB I have ever seen at OSU, and perhaps the worst QB I have ever seen play the game of college football at the FBS level. Behind him was an uber talented true freshman by the name of Braxton Miller. From the first moment they put the kid in anyone with functioning eyeballs could tell you he should be starting, but it took a few games for the coaches to completely hand over the keys to him, and it cost us a few games that year.

The general lack of good coaching would go on to cost us quite a few more games, but the moral of the story is don't be afraid to put the new kid in and see what he is made of. He might not be ready yet, but then again he might surprise everyone. I think that Coker guy is going to have some growing pains of his own, and he does not have a high ceiling to look forward to at the end of the day. A much better idea might be to put the freshman in for a series or 2 and see what he has got, if you like what you see than I say stick with him, you have a much better team/coach than we did that year which should give him room to grow. I think a 1-loss Alabama squad would be a lock for the CFB playoff anyway, so you guys have some breathing room there to test things out and see what works.

Which is why I am going to trust their judgment despite any concerns I may have about a particular QB. A freshman QB will likely cost a team 2-3 wins.

If our QB can be a game manager, take care of the ball, and just get the ball into the playmakers' hands then Bama stands a good chance of being right in the thick of things again. Not to down Blake Sims, but much of the reason he was such a prolific long passer was he usually was throwing to someone who had no one within 5 yards of them. Cooper was that good. The current group of WR's need to step up their game, run crisp routes, block downfield, and catch what hits them in the hands. That will fix half of what is wrong at QB and may help with the other half since much of that is a lack of confidence that only success will overcome.

Barnett is not ready. He is going to be a great QB, but he isn't ready. He definitely has "it", but there is no need to put that on him or the team.

I've watched Alabama win National Title games with QB's that had 18 and 58 yards passing for the whole game, both against "high-powered" offenses that were shut down by superior defenses. I wouldn't want to go that route again as that kind of success is unusual, but I'd sure take the same result! Anyway, what has always won championships still wins championships.

 

[bamaslammer]

Here is a question for some of you forum veterans......

I look around the College landscape and I see teams plugging in and playing Freshman QB's. It happens every year. Look at Rosen right now at UCLA. It happens at Baylor and at TCU too. Ohio State does it. So does a few other teams. They plug in a Freshman QB and don't even blink an eye and they succeed doing it.

So the question is, if Barnett is as good as people say, then why not play him? Is it our offensive system? Is it Saban not trusting a Freshman QB?

If Barnett were playing for Baylor, TCU or one of these other teams, would he be starting this season and putting up good numbers?

I'm just seeing a lot of rules going on around the College Football world right now that do not seem to apply to us when it comes to overall offensive philosophy and the QB position. Maybe we have an antiquated way of thinking now when it comes to these things? Maybe the old way of grooming a Freshman QB isn't the way to go anymore and just plug and play? QB's coming out of HS these days are a lot more prepared then what they used to be.

Or is it really as simple as Barnett just not being ready yet? Which begs the question, would he have been ready at TCU, Oregon or Baylor under similar circumstances? So really, if not now, then when?

This is a point that I think many people wonder about, myself included. It does seem that everyone else can throw in a true freshman QB and they play great. I think it may be more perception than reality though. I will say that if you are a coach of a team that isn't considered a contender for a national title you really have nothing significant to lose by throwing a freshman out there if you think he might be better by the end of the year. It's a different thing all together if a loss or two in September prevents you from playing for a title in January. The other issue is team unity. At Alabama the best players play, if they are a true freshman they play, if they are a 5th year senior who has never played they play. IF players see a guy work for five years and become the best and then see him screwed over for some freshman who just arrived, how then do you tell those players to keep working hard? You absolutely have to practice what you preach to win in the long run. If you take shortcuts you win now and lose later. (See Auburn)

My perception is that though it's taken him 5 years Coker has earned this shot, The Freshman Barnett threw too many interceptions in fall camp to play now. Now it's up to Coker to take advantage of the shot he earned. If he can't do it on the field someone else will get that shot. Time will tell. He looked good against Wisconsin so it is possible for him to play well.

 

[tidefanbeezer]

Here is a question for some of you forum veterans......

I look around the College landscape and I see teams plugging in and playing Freshman QB's. It happens every year. Look at Rosen right now at UCLA. It happens at Baylor and at TCU too. Ohio State does it. So does a few other teams. They plug in a Freshman QB and don't even blink an eye and they succeed doing it.

So the question is, if Barnett is as good as people say, then why not play him? Is it our offensive system? Is it Saban not trusting a Freshman QB?

If Barnett were playing for Baylor, TCU or one of these other teams, would he be starting this season and putting up good numbers?

I'm just seeing a lot of rules going on around the College Football world right now that do not seem to apply to us when it comes to overall offensive philosophy and the QB position. Maybe we have an antiquated way of thinking now when it comes to these things? Maybe the old way of grooming a Freshman QB isn't the way to go anymore and just plug and play? QB's coming out of HS these days are a lot more prepared then what they used to be.

Or is it really as simple as Barnett just not being ready yet? Which begs the question, would he have been ready at TCU, Oregon or Baylor under similar circumstances? So really, if not now, then when?

I think its a couple of things.

First, I think Barnett just isn't ready yet. For a lot of guys, it takes a while to get used to the speed of the game, compared to high school. I'd imagine that the SEC has a little steeper curve than some other conferences.

Second, I think the offenses you mentioned are spread-style offenses that don't require the QB to read defenses as much as our system does. If you haven't had to read defenses it takes a while to learn and get comfortable doing it. Comparing our freshman QB to other freshman QBs is a little apples-to-oranges, in terms of what our offensive system requires.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

Here is a question for some of you forum veterans......

I look around the College landscape and I see teams plugging in and playing Freshman QB's. It happens every year. Look at Rosen right now at UCLA. It happens at Baylor and at TCU too. Ohio State does it. So does a few other teams. They plug in a Freshman QB and don't even blink an eye and they succeed doing it.

So the question is, if Barnett is as good as people say, then why not play him? Is it our offensive system? Is it Saban not trusting a Freshman QB?

If Barnett were playing for Baylor, TCU or one of these other teams, would he be starting this season and putting up good numbers?

I'm just seeing a lot of rules going on around the College Football world right now that do not seem to apply to us when it comes to overall offensive philosophy and the QB position. Maybe we have an antiquated way of thinking now when it comes to these things? Maybe the old way of grooming a Freshman QB isn't the way to go anymore and just plug and play? QB's coming out of HS these days are a lot more prepared then what they used to be.

Or is it really as simple as Barnett just not being ready yet? Which begs the question, would he have been ready at TCU, Oregon or Baylor under similar circumstances? So really, if not now, then when?

The other teams you listed don't play against SEC caliber Defenses. A freshman will take a beating in this conference. Better to bring him along and unleash him when he's ready. I would rate our QB play potential as average this year. We may be better than we think at this point. I'm reserving my total judgment until our line solidifies, and our guys have a little more time to throw. Ditto for our Receivers route running. It's amazing how much better a QB is if the receiver is there when the ball arrives. Lastly... There is nothing going to boost your confidence more than the coach telling you... 'Your our guy'. It takes part of the pressure off.

 

[Ole Man Dan]

I haven't posted since I thought Julio might go to Ohio St. I'm a old football coach that was a DC here in Virginia. I like to think I know a little about football but I am certain some have forgotten more than I will ever know. With that said I would like to add my 2 cents or 1 cent as the case may be.
Coker needs confidence. He has all the intangibles to be a top notch QB! His head is probably the issue at this point. He has to look over his shoulder constantly. I say this because some kids respond to yelling, some to praise, some to kindness, some to friendship, you get my point. With that said, when the coaches find the right button to hit I have no doubt he will flourish. He has all the God given talent in the world, he needs to believe and know this first and foremost. When that light bulb goes off and the pressure falls away you will see what others have talked about. I hope and pray if the players read this they know that through struggles come growth and competition breeds excellence. Coker will be excellent come Saturday. I believe, without a doubt. Take the bull by the horns young man, play fearless, let your teammates carry you when things seem to fall apart and be there when they call on you. We are about to see a exponential growth and this discussion will be a afterthought. I have seen a ton of raw talent in this old mans life and rarely have I seen God given talent that has yet to be fully unleashed. Roll Tide Boys! It's going to be a good weekend. My old man always said "Dance with the girl that brought you." I will dance with Henry all night but Coker may be a fine dancing partner as the season progresses.
I have not seen doom and gloom for a 2-0 team in a long time. Lets BELIEVE!

DITTO...

We may not win em all, but we have the potential to have a good team. I'd like to see us play for a NC every year, but that's unrealistic. (Maybe it's because I remember the lean Shula years.)
RTR

 

[MBA_99]

What does "Take the Bull by the Horns" mean? To me it implies that you're not trying at something so you need to try harder. I think the problem with a QB is the ability to read 2-4 routes, dance away from pressure, and make a good throw all in 2-4 seconds. I don't think any QB has ever not tried hard to do that; only very few have the ability to do it all at a top level.

Here's hoping Coke shows he's got that as he gets his feet wet. Remember, he's been in a vanilla gameplan.

 

[KrAzY3]

It does seem that everyone else can throw in a true freshman QB and they play great. I think it may be more perception than reality though.

I was about to say, no it doesn't... I still can't think of a single true freshman QB to start and lead a team to a title, I'm waiting for someone to give me an example.

To answer the general question, some people were wondering if Barnett was ready yet, and that sort of thing for a little while. He goes out and plays a scrimmage, he throws a couple of picks. No big deal, but it just shows where he's at. Then, even the video of him running into Henry, while funny illustrated that he didn't know how to position himself yet. As has been mentioned, we're talking about SEC defenses, they can make almost anyone look bad. There are so many little things he has to learn, not to mention general mental and physical development.

Let me give one example, people say Barnett has speed so he can get away from defenders. That's all well and good if he sees them, but if he drops back and he doesn't feel the pressure coming, he could get blind sided. Or, he does feel the pressure, he tries running away and gets leveled by an up-field defender. He needs to bulk up, he needs to learn, I believe in his talent, I've said that all along, I do think as a redshirtfreshman he has a chance to start, but I don't see him as the solution to the problem, I see playing him as causing more harm than good. If the coaches thought otherwise I'd defer to them, but the Blake Sims (not a popular pick with the fans but now we can clearly see he was the best option) thing last year reminds us that they kinda know what they are doing with the quarterbacks.

 

[B1GTide]

The only reason that you bring in Barnett is the melt down of Coker. In that case, your season with him as your starter is essentially over as the losses will continue. You then play Barnett with an eye on the future. We did this with Miller and he was one of the best QBs in the nation in his sophomore season. It would have been a shame to delay his development because some other QB gave us a better chance of winning 10 games. Really - 10 wins is not the goal.

 

[Rama Jama]

Players, especially QB's, are less ready for big time football than ever with the proliferation of spread and HUNH teams in high schools. Almost all high schools use this system now and kids never learn to read progressions. QB's now have to learn the position as freshman and sophomores rather than coming in ready to contribute. The teams that play freshman QB's are the same HUNH and spread teams so the kid has a much smaller learning curve. These 7 on 7 camps show a kids athletic skill level, but really don't show real game ability. This is really a disservice to the kids because many never learn the position. Look at RG3, he was great in college in the spread system, but has been miserable in the pro's. He never had to learn the mental skills to play QB. There is no substitute for experience.

I too believe Barnett is the best QB we have, but if the coaches don't think he ready, I'll defer to them. The real problem right now to me is the O-line play. CNS wants us to be the dominating team at the point of attack and that will never happen unless the line plays better. I am not a fan of Cristobal.

 

[derek4tide]

I was about to say, no it doesn't... I still can't think of a single true freshman QB to start and lead a team to a title, I'm waiting for someone to give me an example.

Only one so far, UCLA has one in the works this year. Jamelle Holieway is the only one.

Holieway threw a 71-yard touchdown pass in that game to All-American tight end Keith Jackson. Holieway remains the only true freshman quarterback to lead his team to the national title.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamelle_Holieway

 

[rgw]

The big thing with Braxton Miller is that he has one thing you can't really teach: speed and quick twitch.

Barnett is pretty athletic apparently but he is still betting on his arm to get him to the next level. He needs time to familiarize himself with our scheme and bulk up so he can take some hits over a full season. Even guys like Andrew Luck or Jameis Winston needed a year of seasoning to be an effective pro-style quarterback. That is the reality with Barnett in my opinion. Guys like Miller can get by and even flourish by being a mediocre to poor passer in their freshman year because their other skills are such a huge difference. Barnett needs physical development and familiarity with the offense to show off his talents. The only way I see him getting on the field is if Coker and Bateman are abysmal in the SEC schedule and they think he's good enough to play and develop for 2016 (because the season is probably over if both guys have tried and failed).

 

[TrampLineman]

Michael Vick I think was a true freshman at VT when they made the title game but lost. I agree if we played Barnett we would lose 2-3 easily, but if we lose 2 with Coker I don't see any reason to keep him playing and not build for the future. Until then though, lets keep blasting them with Coker. He hasn't lost yet.

 

[b2v4ua]

2 things I see with Coker...... 1. He stares down his receivers. 2. He doesn't go through his progression and if his first one isn't there he gets frustrated and tends to then make a bad decision usually a bad throw.

 

[tidefanbeezer]

Michael Vick I think was a true freshman at VT when they made the title game but lost. I agree if we played Barnett we would lose 2-3 easily, but if we lose 2 with Coker I don't see any reason to keep him playing and not build for the future. Until then though, lets keep blasting them with Coker. He hasn't lost yet.

Vick was a RS freshman.

 

[NationalTitles18]

What does "Take the Bull by the Horns" mean? To me it implies that you're not trying at something so you need to try harder. I think the problem with a QB is the ability to read 2-4 routes, dance away from pressure, and make a good throw all in 2-4 seconds. I don't think any QB has ever not tried hard to do that; only very few have the ability to do it all at a top level.

Here's hoping Coke shows he's got that as he gets his feet wet. Remember, he's been in a vanilla gameplan.

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/take+the+bull+by+its+horns.html

Taking a bull by its horns would be the most direct but also the most dangerous way to try to compete with such an animal. When we use the phrase in everyday talk, we mean that the person we are talking about tackles their problems directly and is not worried about any risks involved..

To me, it means to stop worrying about what might happen and just do what has to be done and what you know to do. When you take a bull by its horns you are controlling the beast and refusing to let it control you.

 

[Loam]

2 things I see with Coker...... 1. He stares down his receivers. 2. He doesn't go through his progression and if his first one isn't there he gets frustrated and tends to then make a bad decision usually a bad throw.

To me, the offense doesn't seem fluid when Coker is in there. Things seem herky jerky and off kilter. He also has a long wind up which isn't good for those WR screens and bubble screens. The ball has to get out there quick and Coker doesn't have a quick release at all.

Also, blitzes always seem to get to Coker. Hes a statue in the pocket. If his first 1-2 reads are not there, then chances are, hes going to get sacked if the D brings pressure.

Honestly, Coker reminds me a little bit of Matt Mettenberger. Whether that is good or bad is another story.

 

[Matt0424]

I was about to say, no it doesn't... I still can't think of a single true freshman QB to start and lead a team to a title, I'm waiting for someone to give me an example.

To answer the general question, some people were wondering if Barnett was ready yet, and that sort of thing for a little while. He goes out and plays a scrimmage, he throws a couple of picks. No big deal, but it just shows where he's at. Then, even the video of him running into Henry, while funny illustrated that he didn't know how to position himself yet. As has been mentioned, we're talking about SEC defenses, they can make almost anyone look bad. There are so many little things he has to learn, not to mention general mental and physical development.

Let me give one example, people say Barnett has speed so he can get away from defenders. That's all well and good if he sees them, but if he drops back and he doesn't feel the pressure coming, he could get blind sided. Or, he does feel the pressure, he tries running away and gets leveled by an up-field defender. He needs to bulk up, he needs to learn, I believe in his talent, I've said that all along, I do think as a redshirtfreshman he has a chance to start, but I don't see him as the solution to the problem, I see playing him as causing more harm than good. If the coaches thought otherwise I'd defer to them, but the Blake Sims (not a popular pick with the fans but now we can clearly see he was the best option) thing last year reminds us that they kinda know what they are doing with the quarterbacks.

This.

I don't care what happens this year, I'm letting Coker (or one of the other non-freshman QB's) ride it out. Barnett can RS, and go in to next year to battling everyone left for the job.

The kid isn't ready, and I don't think you roll him out there to get hurt, to play poor enough to kill his confidence, or to just hand the ball off and ride out the season. I think he's going to be very special, but I don't think there's a need to rush him onto the field.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

To me, the offense doesn't seem fluid when Coker is in there. Things seem herky jerky and off kilter. He also has a long wind up which isn't good for those WR screens and bubble screens. The ball has to get out there quick and Coker doesn't have a quick release at all.

Honestly, Coker reminds me a little bit of Matt Mettenberger. Whether that is good or bad is another story.

Zach Mettenberger has a much quicker release. Not familiar with the mechanics of his cousin Matt. :wink: