The Perpetual Gun Control Thread

crimsonaudio

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You didn't answer my question, and we've already established that the second amendment is not an absolute right.
Well, what you easily dismiss (self defense) has been proved a need quite few times. I'm sure you can google as well as I can, but I can readily recall several instances where a single man repelled multiple home invaders because he was armed with a high capacity rifle.

If four guys kicked in your front door I guarantee you'd understand why no one in that situation has ever said 'no, that's too much ammunition'. And that applies to both rifles and handguns.

Heck, I can even show you an instance where a police officer got into a shootout with a suspect and hit him 22 times with his .40 service pistol and finished him off with his shotgun as they guy was still in the fight. One guy.
 

Tidewater

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I was honestly not trying to be funny.
Here is the text I was thinking of when typing my response.
The Instructions to the Delegates from Mecklenburg, North Carolina, to the Provincial Congress at Halifax November 1776
Back-country rednecks from North Carolina. Pretty smart.
1st. Political power is of two kinds, one principal and superior, the other derived and inferior.
2d. The principal supreme power is possessed by the people at large, the derived and inferior power by the servants which they employ.
3d. Whatever persons are delegated, chosen, employed and intrusted by the people are their servants and can possess only derived inferior power.
4th. Whatever is constituted and ordained by the principal supreme power can not be altered, suspended or abrogated by any other power, but the same power that ordained may alter, suspend and abrogate its own ordinances.
5th. The rules whereby the inferior power is to be exercised are to be constituted by the principal supreme power, and can be altered, suspended and abrogated by the same and no other.
6th. No authority can exist or be exercised but what shall appear to be ordained and created by the principal supreme power or by derived inferior power which the principal supreme power hath authorized to create such authority.
7th. That the derived inferior power can by no construction or pretence assume or exercise a power to subvert the principal supreme power.
The people of the states (the sovereigns I spoke of, not each individual person, but the people of the states in their corporate capacity) decided that the general government was not empowered to restrict the ownership of guns. (The states could, but that is a matter for the people of each state and their state constitution.)
No action by their representatives in the "derived and inferior" (i.e. officeholding) capacity can over-rule the people in their "principal and superior" (constitution-making) capacity.
We had the debate. Centralizers lost (actually nobody even dared to bring the subject up because it would have precipitated the breakup of the Union to suggest that the general government have such a power; delegates would have run out of the Philadelphia Convention as fast as they could go).
It may be time for a new debate, but the perceived urgency of today's need does not over-rule the fact that we cannot fix this with a statute. We need an amendment.
Or, we could just chuck the idea that a Constitution actually limits federal powers.
 

crimsonaudio

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A friend of mine just re-posted this (uses FBI numbers) - it's interesting when you break it down:

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. U.S. population 324,059,091 as of Wednesday, June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.00925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant. What is rarely discussed, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective:
• 65% of those deaths are by suicide which would never be prevented by gun laws
• 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified
• 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – gun violence
• 3% are accidental discharge deaths

So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but in reality roughly to 5,100. Still too many? Well, how are those deaths spanned across the nation?
• 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago
• 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore
• 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit
• 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years)

So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause.

This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation.
 

BamaBuc

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Every school in America should have security and not some old guy security (sorry Earl :) ) but real security.
Yeah, having your Football Coach working as your security officer just ain't wise, (well maybe if he had been an armed Security Officer)...!
One other thing with that school that doesn't make much sense to me is they had a School Resource officer but one of the teachers said yesterday that he was splitting time with another school, WHY? This school had an enrollment of 3,000+...
Here in Pinellas County we have a County School Police Dept., separate from the Sheriff's Dept. or any of the local municipalities...
 

crimsonaudio

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Yeah, having your Football Coach working as your security officer just ain't wise, (well maybe if he had been an armed Security Officer)...!
One other thing with that school that doesn't make much sense to me is they had a School Resource officer but one of the teachers said yesterday that he was splitting time with another school, WHY? This school had an enrollment of 3,000+...
Here in Pinellas County we have a County School Police Dept., separate from the Sheriff's Dept. or any of the local municipalities...
Yeah, every school I attended in Orlando had a full-time sheriff's deputy there, armed and in uniform. I figured that's how it was done everywhere until I moved away.
 

Special K

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Those with knowledge can convert an AR15 to fully automatic with parts bought online. I think that's something more.
And those with knowledge can make a bomb out of a propane tank with parts you can get at Home Depot. So what?
 

crimsonaudio

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Those with knowledge can convert an AR15 to fully automatic with parts bought online. I think that's something more.
Sure, you can purchase an illegal auto-sear and with some knowledge, drill out the receiver to make it work, but you're guaranteed a decade or more in a federal penitentiary if you're caught.

Also, I can't recall a single mass shooting where the murderer used an automatic rifle.
 

Special K

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Sure, you can purchase an illegal auto-sear and with some knowledge, drill out the receiver to make it work, but you're guaranteed a decade or more in a federal penitentiary if you're caught.

Also, I can't recall a single mass shooting where the murderer used an automatic rifle.
That's because full auto is exceedingly hard to control. No accuracy, only good for suppressive /cover fire.
 

Displaced Bama Fan

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Yeah, having your Football Coach working as your security officer just ain't wise, (well maybe if he had been an armed Security Officer)...!
One other thing with that school that doesn't make much sense to me is they had a School Resource officer but one of the teachers said yesterday that he was splitting time with another school, WHY? This school had an enrollment of 3,000+...
Here in Pinellas County we have a County School Police Dept., separate from the Sheriff's Dept. or any of the local municipalities...
When I think of resource officer, I think of someone who is running down truancies, dealing with domestic issues...things like that.
 

NationalTitles17

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we can't explain "exactly" what we want to be done, because discussion is not really allowed. there is no one "exact" solution the same as there is no one "exact" problem and expecting/demanding such in the discussion of how to deal with an extremely complex (and deadly) issue is basically shutting discussion down.
I mean no disrespect, but this is a cop out. It's not too much to ask someone proposing a solution to be specific about the proposal and why it is believed that proposal will work. You basically have an audience of a number of gun owners, even advocates - some of whom are quite willing to listen to see if a proposal has merit, and this is your response? I'm disappointed - not because I want to scold you - but because it's a missed opportunity to advance the discussion.
 

danb

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That damn pesky constitution......those unmeaning words of “Shall Not Be Infringed Upon” doesn’t mean a damn thing .....our founding fathers didn’t mean that......”are you gonna believe what folks tell you, or your lying ... eyes”

Yes it DOES guarantee American citizens the right to arm themselves......




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TIDE-HSV

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That's because full auto is exceedingly hard to control. No accuracy, only good for suppressive /cover fire.
The Army used to let all qualifiers try full auto once, just to show them that. I noticed you mentioned muzzle brakes earlier. I have one also. It helps immensely over an issue flash suppressor...
 

RTR91

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TUSCALOOSAHONOR

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Yeah, every school I attended in Orlando had a full-time sheriff's deputy there, armed and in uniform. I figured that's how it was done everywhere until I moved away.
Most larger schools have a SRO (school resource officer), smaller city schools not so much. The town I work in has 3 schools, a high school, middle school, and elementary. The SRO probably spends most of his time at the high school because that is where most of the trouble occurs. However he is expected to go to and cover the other schools as well. Being as this is a small town the pd isn't that far away from the schools and could be there within a minute of getting any type of active shooter call.
 

BamaInCummingGA#1

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To those who want to ban firearms PERIOD (not really speaking of anyone on this board in particular) ........When all of the illegal guns are confiscated and the politicians secure the boarders ( in terms of illegal arms coming in.....and keeping illegals (regardless of race/ethnicity) out who may bring this stuff in) and cut out the gang violence I will be happy to discuss any laws that make sense and the authorities are willing/able to enforce that do not infringe on my rights under the U.S. Constitution.

Someone said in a much earlier post that this is a gun issue. I submit that it is not. It is a people issue on many levels. This PC crap where we're all supposed to be equal and life is fair and so on has made it to where this younger generation can't deal with issues such as failure and disappointment and rejection and so on.

On to the gun thing......I have never known a gun of any type that has gotten angry enough or been in fear enough to load its own clip/magazine, etc and point itself at the subject of its anger/fear and pull its own trigger regardless of how the weapon looks or how many rounds it holds.

Someone else suggested that these "assault" style weapons are scarier than other weapons.......I submit to anyone on this board that if my wife's little 380 ain't scary if you're looking at the business end of it pointed directly at you then you're a fool, an idiot or a combination of the two.

I have guns. I like guns because target shooting requires me to slow down, think, breath and be precise. I have taught my daughter that I do not ever want to point a gun at anyone and have to pull the trigger be it in self defense or otherwise because either way you are taking the life of another human. I have been involved in taking the life of another human in the form of them coming into my lane in a smaller vehicle striking the one I was driving and he was killed instantly. I couldn't avoid it and it wasn't my fault but the guy was no less dead. It's a heck of a thing to live with every day. I have also taught my daughter that I do not want to ever be in a position to need to defend myself or my family and neighbors and not have the means to do so.

I have a gun safe and keep mine locked up (except my home defense preference) and I'm the only one in this house who knows/has access to the combination.

Guns are not the problem. People are . People now days have no respect/regard for others (you can see this everyday just travelling on the road). You are not going to solve this by simply outlawing legally bought firearms.

I was talking to my family about this tonight and the truth is that if someone wants to kill they will find a way whether it's with a gun, knife, baseball bat, brick, big rock and so on. Granted, you can obviously do more with a gun, but a person's intent is still the issue. There are people out there who are just evil and no test or licensing procedures or laws can account for that.

It is time we quit excusing these behaviors and trying to find excuses. It is time that we get back to teaching kids about reality and about such things as failure and rejection and disappointment and a hard/strong work ethic and weaning them off all the video games/tech devices. Yeah, in my opinion, these are some of the issues. Some on here will agree and some will not. I will certainly respect your opinion and ask that you do the same in terms of my opinion.
 

gtowntide

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And those with knowledge can make a bomb out of a propane tank with parts you can get at Home Depot. So what?
The statement was it was a semi-automatic nothing more. My statement was it can be fully automatic which is much more. I don't understand the bomb propane from Home Depot reference. What does that have to do with an AR-15 discussion?
 

crimsonaudio

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The statement was it was a semi-automatic nothing more. My statement was it can be fully automatic which is much more. I don't understand the bomb propane from Home Depot reference. What does that have to do with an AR-15 discussion?
His point is that if someone wants to wreak havoc in a free society, they will. And he mentioned the propane because it's far simpler to creat some sort of bomb from a 'propane from Home Depot' (or some simple explosive and a pressure cooker, or some fuel oil and ammonium nitrate) than it is to modify an AR lower to accept an auto-sear.
 

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