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The Trayvon Martin Case

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twofbyc

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cbi1972 said:
It may not matter to you, but it has everything to do with whether the killing was self defense. Zimmerman has no obligation to refrain from following people and asking them questions, regardless of what someone at 911 says.
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Does anybody have any info on how many shots were actually fired, and how many times the kid was shot? Supposedly, there was a "warning shot" followed by an interval of some time (some say 30 seconds, don't think it was that long) and then another shot; screams were supposedly heard in the interval between shots.
Now if was a warning shot, and the kid was actually screaming (and I think it can be proven who was screaming), and then he got shot....hard to claim self defense as no one in his right mind is going to attack (or continue an attack) after a warning shot is fired by the one being attacked.
Just need to hear ALL the facts before making a decision, because no one will ever know what happened when Z caught up with the kid, except from Z's perspective...which may or may not be true.
 
RammerJammer14

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SimplyTide said:
I added in the things that we DO know. Namely, that he identified the boy as black when he called the police, and that he refused to comply with the police when they told him to back off. So, to him, race was important, and his decision to continue the "pursuit" when told to back off led to the death of an innocent boy. IMO, you have to stretch to come to a different conclusion.
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Black is a descriptor. Especially in regards to crime. You don't hear too many police calls referring to a "6ft man in jeans" because that isn't very helpful. You look for a "6ft caucasian man in jeans". If you are calling in a suspicious person, you list their ethnicity when describing them to police. Now did this guy get suspicious because he saw a black kid walking around with the hood pulled up on his hoodie? Probably. But I'm pretty sure he didn't decide to chase down and shoot the kid because he was black.

SimplyTide said:
Have you listened to the 911 call? He calls him a "curse word"ing coon when he started chasing him. He said, these xxxxxxx coons always get away. I am not looking for it - it is right there.
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He said "these a-holes always get away". I'm not sure what "coon" is supposed to refer to in regards to a black person anyways.
 
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twofbyc

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rizolltizide said:
I can't speak to that.
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Back in the mid-90's I worked with a guy from there (Sanford), and that was the impression I got...but I can't honestly remember if he actually said something, or if I just got the feeling from the way he was.
 
twofbyc

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RammerJammer14 said:
Black is a descriptor. Especially in regards to crime. You don't hear too many police calls referring to a "6ft man in jeans" because that isn't very helpful. You look for a "6ft caucasian man in jeans". If you are calling in a suspicious person, you list their ethnicity when describing them to police. Now did this guy get suspicious because he saw a black kid walking around with the hood pulled up on his hoodie? Probably. But I'm pretty sure he didn't decide to chase down and shoot the kid because he was black.



He said "these a-holes always get away". I'm not sure what "coon" is supposed to refer to in regards to a black person anyways.
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Old racist derogatory term, used mostly in the South, I think.
 
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New information: http://abcnews.go.com/US/traynor-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017

ABC News was there exclusively as the 16-year-old girl told Crump about the last moments of the teenager's life. Martin had been talking to his girlfriend all the way to the store where he bought Skittles and a tea. The phone was in his pocket and the earphone in his ear, Crump said.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

Trayvon's phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on the scene. Crump said the girl's identity was being withheld because "her parents are gravely concerned about her health and her safety." Her parents asked that only an attorney be allowed to ask her questions.

Martin's father, Tracey Martin, and mother, Sybrina Fulton, listened to the call, along with ABC News, ashen-faced.
"He knew he was being followed and tried to get away from the guy, and the guy still caught up with him," Tracey Martin said. "And that's the most disturbing part. He thought he had got away from the guy, and the guy backtracked for him."

The girl was so distraught after the killing that she spent a night in the hospital, the lawyer said.
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cbi1972

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92tide

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cbi1972 said:
So Zimmerman did ask what he was doing there. And instead of a conversation, there was a physical altercation, and we have only the word of the survivor as to how it started. And a lot of assumptions.
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and a dead kid who was doing nothing but walking home from the store
 
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cbi1972 said:
So Zimmerman did ask what he was doing there. And instead of a conversation, there was a physical altercation, and we have only the word of the survivor as to how it started. And a lot of assumptions.
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No, we also have the testimony of the girl, which contradicts Zimmerman's in a few key areas. That alone tells us that Zimmerman has lied to cover his tracks. But he has you covering his tracks for him, so he should be fine. :wink:
 
Tide1986

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SimplyTide said:
No, we also have the testimony of the girl, which contradicts Zimmerman's in a few key areas. That alone tells us that Zimmerman has lied to cover his tracks. But he has you covering his tracks for him, so he should be fine. :wink:
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She's no more objective/reliable as a witness in this matter than Zimmerman.
 
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