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Trump's Policies Part 3

Bamabuzzard said:
"Time to reevaluate"?!! LOL! How about it's time to fire some people and clean up the clown show?!

And the Vice President needs to be publicly reprimanded by the President for participating. But I doubt any of this will happen.
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I remember when Republican administrations included guys like Robert Gates and Colin Powell.

And this is what the people wanted? It's not like Trump's tomfoolery wasn't already known(2017-2021).
 
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Its On A Slab said:
I remember when Republican administrations included guys like Robert Gates and Colin Powell.

And this is what the people wanted? It's not like Trump's tomfoolery wasn't already known(2017-2021).
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Not only that, but it was two REPUBLICAN Senators (Bob Dole and David Durenberger) who began rattling the cage on Iran-Contra. They didn't run interference or try to persuade us all that Reagan had done a good thing or was playing seven-dimensional chess.

For that matter despite being a very flawed individual, former Republican Senator John Tower issued the report that laid the blame for the "arms for hostages" deal right into Reagan's lap. Basically, he knew, and if he didn't know, he should have. And even if he didn't know, he has yet to condemn their conduct.
 
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selmaborntidefan said:
Not only that, but it was two REPUBLICAN Senators (Bob Dole and David Durenberger) who began rattling the cage on Iran-Contra. They didn't run interference or try to persuade us all that Reagan had done a good thing or was playing seven-dimensional chess.

For that matter despite being a very flawed individual, former Republican Senator John Tower issued the report that laid the blame for the "arms for hostages" deal right into Reagan's lap. Basically, he knew, and if he didn't know, he should have. And even if he didn't know, he has yet to condemn their conduct.
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You are correct. And it's pretty well known that there was a deal in place that Reagan would avoid being impeached if someone was brought in to be a caretaker. Howard Baker was brought in to steer the executive branch during the last days of Reagan's 2nd term. Alzheimer's was already apparent.
 
selmaborntidefan said:
When President Reagan was shot - as anyone can imagine - his Cabinet and NSA and everyone was in total chaos. (For those who don't remember, VP Bush was in Texas, ironically staying the night in the same hotel where JFK spent his last evening alive). And this was during the Cold War. Despite all the stress, all the fear, and everything that normal humans would feel, there was a point where they were about to hold discussions about how to handle things if the USSR got out of hand or someone tried to act thinking the US was unable to do anything. At one point (it's on tape) at the beginning of the discussions, the question came: "Does everyone in the room have a clearance?"

They paused for a moment under unplanned and extreme duress to, you know, FOLLOW THE LAW and proper ethics and to try and make sure everyone was permitted to be there.


And then we have this and you know what's the most preposterous part about it?

This CANNOT possibly be surprising to ANYONE who has followed this leader's approach to the White House the last decade. The most surprising thing is how not surprising it really is.
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Let me add something to this particular historical note.

When VP Bush landed at Andrews, the Secret Service wanted - for the sake of safety - to fly him to the South Lawn of the White House. Bush took all of two seconds to shoot down that idea and told them two things: 1) ONLY the President lands on the South Lawn of the White House; 2) it will send the wrong message to the world if they see it (and this was many things like Russia being emboldened to invade some helpless European country or even "see, Reagan's dead and they're not telling us, why would Bush land there otherwise?")
 
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Its On A Slab said:
You are correct. And it's pretty well known that there was a deal in place that Reagan would avoid being impeached if someone was brought in to be a caretaker. Howard Baker was brought in to steer the executive branch during the last days of Reagan's 2nd term. Alzheimer's was already apparent.
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yeah, but the only way Reagan was ever going to be impeached was if they ever found a document showing he approved of the diversion to the contras. Oliver North had had plenty of time to shred one if it existed, but it should also be noted - and this came up even in Lawrence Walsh's report - that Reagan DID at least in theory approve of the diversion in that he wanted to help the contras BUT HE ALSO had been very explicit in telling them to keep it within legal means, too. It can be argued until doomsday I guess what should have been done, but it reminds me of Keith Dunnavant's comments about Coach Bryant simultaneously expecting team captains confronted with a changing situation (say the wind has shifted directions or the mud is thicker than it was) to OBEY HIS ORDERS but also to USE YOUR BRAIN for something obvious.

I honestly don't know on the Reagan with Alzheimer's in 1986 notion, but I can see that one either way.
Ironically, it actually helps his legacy, turning him from a man who was trying to undercut US policy in Iran to a victim of something he couldn't help.
 
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Yet another example of dictatorship behavior from this administration. How much evidence do people need?

Why use Signal? So that there is no record of the comms, of course. Approved government systems keep records of all comms. Remember, Trump was impeached once because of what these records revealed. So of course, this corrupt admin is using a none approved communication channel that has a feature to automatically remove messages after a set time.

Everyone in that chat group should be fired by the end of the day and possibly court martialed like any lower rank military member would be.
 
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selmaborntidefan said:
yeah, but the only way Reagan was ever going to be impeached was if they ever found a document showing he approved of the diversion to the contras. Oliver North had had plenty of time to shred one if it existed, but it should also be noted - and this came up even in Lawrence Walsh's report - that Reagan DID at least in theory approve of the diversion in that he wanted to help the contras BUT HE ALSO had been very explicit in telling them to keep it within legal means, too. It can be argued until doomsday I guess what should have been done, but it reminds me of Keith Dunnavant's comments about Coach Bryant simultaneously expecting team captains confronted with a changing situation (say the wind has shifted directions or the mud is thicker than it was) to OBEY HIS ORDERS but also to USE YOUR BRAIN for something obvious.

I honestly don't know on the Reagan with Alzheimer's in 1986 notion, but I can see that one either way.
Ironically, it actually helps his legacy, turning him from a man who was trying to undercut US policy in Iran to a victim of something he couldn't help.
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From what little I know about Alzheimers, the 1986 theory is ludicrous. No one with this horrible disease lives 18 years. It is more like 8 or 10. My grandmother lived about 8 years after diagnosed.
 
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Its On A Slab said:
You are correct. And it's pretty well known that there was a deal in place that Reagan would avoid being impeached if someone was brought in to be a caretaker. Howard Baker was brought in to steer the executive branch during the last days of Reagan's 2nd term. Alzheimer's was already apparent.
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I’ve heard things like this before, but never read confirmation from anyone who would know. Do you know of any sources I could see that would verify this?
 
Huckleberry said:
I’ve heard things like this before, but never read confirmation from anyone who would know. Do you know of any sources I could see that would verify this?
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I'll let Slab answer that, but I'll add it doesn't make any sense at all, not when you have George H.W. Bush as a Vice-President and an upcoming election. As distasteful as the Iran half of the Iran-contra scandal was, the only thing he was really in danger of impeachment for was the CONTRA half, and either he did not actually approve that portion via signature or if he did, North shredded it.

This is from Lou Cannon's "President Reagan: The Role of a Lifetime," the updated 2001 edition:

Once the initiative became a secondary issue, the burden of defense for Reagan was minimal. All he had to do was say over and over again that he never knew what North had been doing. After Poindexter testified that he had not told the president of the diversion (“The buck stops here with me”), Reagan could have been brought down only by a signed document that showed his approval of the diversion. Watergate had taught presidents never to make tapes. And if any incriminating document had existed, Poindexter or North had been given ample opportunity to destroy it while Meese conducted his leisurely inquiry without sealing their offices.

And the thing is that in this case I can believe almost anything.

I can believe Reagan signed a document approving the diversion and North destroyed it.
I can believe North and Poindexter sincerely believed they were carrying out Reagan's desires but went rogue or at least beyond what Reagan considered acceptable.
I can even believe Reagan signed the diversion document and forgot about it.

But Reagan was only going to be impeached if such a document was found, too. And given the investigation showed Bush DID know about Iran but had no idea about the contra part, it just doesn't make much sense to me to replace Reagan with Howard Baker when all would have to do is let Bush take office and run as an incumbent with the twin issues of peace and prosperity.
 
DzynKingRTR said:
From what little I know about Alzheimers, the 1986 theory is ludicrous. No one with this horrible disease lives 18 years. It is more like 8 or 10. My grandmother lived about 8 years after diagnosed.
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Maybe, maybe not.

I'll concede your point that it is unlikely - highly unlikely even - but it's also the reality that every single person over the age of 70 has SOME level of dementia (not Alzheimer's), even if minimal.

But me personally?
I don't think he "forgot" approving the IRAN half of the scandal at all. I think he got outplayed by the Iranians and some clowns in his own administration and was too embarrassed to admit it. Don Regan wanted it to sound like Reagan was asking about the hostages every single day. Assuming that's true, it's preposterous to suggest he forgot approving the arms sales.

The contra half involved subterfuge and special ops, so I can at least conceive it's possible he may not have remembered signing ONE document in that span. My suspicion there is that North went rogue and didn't keep the "stay within the law" part in mind - but that North did truly believe he was doing what he thought Reagan wanted, too.

This is what happens when you're not "really" a Great Communicator.
 
DzynKingRTR said:
Presidents McKinley, Garfield, and Kennedy were Forded. Reagan and Trump were almost Forded. See how dumb it sounds when you just attach the name of where something happened?
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I had to chew on this one for a moment.

Now I get it.

I'm thinking, "How in the hell could McKinley have been pardoned by Gerald Ford?"
 
CrimsonNagus said:
Yet another example of dictatorship behavior from this administration. How much evidence do people need?

Why use Signal? So that there is no record of the comms, of course. Approved government systems keep records of all comms. Remember, Trump was impeached once because of what these records revealed. So of course, this corrupt admin is using a none approved communication channel that has a feature to automatically remove messages after a set time.

Everyone in that chat group should be fired by the end of the day and possibly court martialed like any lower rank military member would be.
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In a normal administration, they would be.

(At this point, I don't even need to comment).
 
Just remember, folks: this scandal is going to get handed to the blue team on a silver platter, and they're going to blow it. Trust me on this. I've been watching a long time.
 
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