Who are your top 5 Bama QBs all-time?

[selmaborntidefan]

Let's first take some names out with a few comments, some of which won't even be necessary:

Gary Hollingsworth - let me state that prior to the Saban Era, Gary Hollingsworth was probably my favorite Tide player not named Major Ogilvie, so much so that my first ever internet sign-on for a CFB message board was Hollingsworth89. Having said that, though, his is largely a two-game career (Ole Miss and Tennessee in 1989) and not much else. And he wasn't even the best player on the field in the Vols game, so this one just has to be let go. Again - I liked him then and like him now, and it's not his fault, but our 1989 team that so many nuzzled up to as the year got later and later without a loss was a group of decent players led by a clueless coach that overachieved. Seriously - if Blair Thomas goes about a foot more and scores in the Penn State game, almost nobody even remembers the 1989 team despite the fact they still would have been SEC champions. Hell, Gary threw more INTs playing a partial 1989 season than Tua threw in 684 attempts in his entire Alabama career. (And no, folks, 1989 wasn't like the 60s. Tommy Hodson (LSU) threw 12 picks on a lousy team, but he also threw 22 TDs).

Jay Barker - again, I liked him but how good was he?

He had ONE good season and even then was no better than fifth - not nationally, fifth in the SEC!!! Sure, he won a lot of games, and he won a national title. Do you remember how much he had to do with winning that national title? ZERO!!! 4-for-13 for 18 yards and two INTs. Barker was so bad in 1992, it was rumored he would be the first QB in college history to win a national title and then be relegated to the bench the very next year. In 1994, which everybody remembers as "wow, Barker is good," he was SIXTH in the SEC in passing yardage. He was one yard behind Jamie Howard of LSU, the guy who threw the five picks in the 4th qtr of the 1994 LSU game - despite Howard playing one game less. Yes, he was behind Eric Zeier, no shame in that, but he was also behind such mortals as Howard, Josh Nelson, and Steve Tanneyhill.


I like these guys, I'm glad for their contributions, but PLEASE let's not pretend these were among the best QBs in Alabama history. A quarterback is an important aspect of the game, but he's 1/11th of the team on the field at one time, too. National championships are TEAM accomplishments, not individual ones.

Let's look at the best single year of some Alabama quarterbacks just to see the overall picture:
Bryce Young 366 for 547, 4872 yards, 66.9%, 47 TD, 7 INT (note: plus 3 rushing TDs)
Mac Jones 311 for 402, 4500 yards, 77.4%, 41 TD, 4 INT (plus one rushing TD)
Tua 245 for 355, 3966 yards, 69.0%, 43 TD, 6 INT (plus 5 rushing TDs)
Jalen Hurts** 240 for 382, 2780 yards, 62.8%, 23 TD, 9 INT (13 rushing TDs as well)
Jake Coker 263 for 393, 3110 yards, 66.9%, 21 TD, 8 INT (plus 2 rushing TDs)
Blake Sims 252 for 391, 3487 yards, 64.5%, 28 TD, 10 INT (plus 7 rushing TDs)
Greg McElroy 222 for 313, 2987 yards, 70.9%, 20 TD, 5 INT (1 rush TD)
JP Wilson 255 for 462, 2846 yards, 57.9%, 18 TD, 12 INT (5 rushing TDs)
Brodie Croyle 202 for 339, 2499 yards, 59.6%, 14 TD, 4 INT (1 rush TD)
Zow/Watts 1999 195 for 347, 2297 yards, 56.2%, 14 TD, 14 INT
Freddie Kitchens 152 for 302, 2124 yards, 50.3%, 14 TD, 14 INT
Jay Barker 139 for 226, 1996 yards, 61.5%, 14 TD, 5 INT
Gary Hollingsworth 205 for 339, 2379 yards, 60.5%, 14 TD, 16 INT
Mike Shula 138 for 229, 2009 yards, 60.3%, 16 TD, 8 INT
Walter Lewis 114 for 256, 1991 yards, 56.3%, 14 TD, 15 INT

The wishbone era didn't lend itself to much passing, although Jeff Rutledge was the most consistent passer, with similar numbers in 1976 and 77, similar completions with a lower pct but better TD/INT numbers in 1978.

Scott Hunter 157 for 266, 2188 yards, 59.0%, 9 TD, 8 INT
Kenny Stabler 74 for 114, 956 yards, 64.9%, 9 TD, 5 INT
Steve Sloan 97 for 160, 1453 yards, 60.6%, 10 TD, 3 INT
Joe Namath 76 for 146, 1192 yards, 52.1%, 13 TD, 8 INT
Pat Trammell 75 for 133, 1035 yards, 56.4%, 8 TD, 2 INT (75 rushes for 279 yards, 5 TD)
Bart Starr 59 for 119, 870 yards, 49.6%, 8 TD, 6 INT

** - best year at Alabama; his Oklahoma year was substantially better

 

[BamaMoon]

Let's first take some names out with a few comments, some of which won't even be necessary:

Gary Hollingsworth - let me state that prior to the Saban Era, Gary Hollingsworth was probably my favorite Tide player not named Major Ogilvie, so much so that my first ever internet sign-on for a CFB message board was Hollingsworth89. Having said that, though, his is largely a two-game career (Ole Miss and Tennessee in 1989) and not much else. And he wasn't even the best player on the field in the Vols game, so this one just has to be let go. Again - I liked him then and like him now, and it's not his fault, but our 1989 team that so many nuzzled up to as the year got later and later without a loss was a group of decent players led by a clueless coach that overachieved. Seriously - if Blair Thomas goes about a foot more and scores in the Penn State game, almost nobody even remembers the 1989 team despite the fact they still would have been SEC champions. Hell, Gary threw more INTs playing a partial 1989 season than Tua threw in 684 attempts in his entire Alabama career. (And no, folks, 1989 wasn't like the 60s. Tommy Hodson (LSU) threw 12 picks on a lousy team, but he also threw 22 TDs).

Jay Barker - again, I liked him but how good was he?

He had ONE good season and even then was no better than fifth - not nationally, fifth in the SEC!!! Sure, he won a lot of games, and he won a national title. Do you remember how much he had to do with winning that national title? ZERO!!! 4-for-13 for 18 yards and two INTs. Barker was so bad in 1992, it was rumored he would be the first QB in college history to win a national title and then be relegated to the bench the very next year. In 1994, which everybody remembers as "wow, Barker is good," he was SIXTH in the SEC in passing yardage. He was one yard behind Jamie Howard of LSU, the guy who threw the five picks in the 4th qtr of the 1994 LSU game - despite Howard playing one game less. Yes, he was behind Eric Zeier, no shame in that, but he was also behind such mortals as Howard, Josh Nelson, and Steve Tanneyhill.


I like these guys, I'm glad for their contributions, but PLEASE let's not pretend these were among the best QBs in Alabama history. A quarterback is an important aspect of the game, but he's 1/11th of the team on the field at one time, too. National championships are TEAM accomplishments, not individual ones.

Let's look at the best single year of some Alabama quarterbacks just to see the overall picture:
Bryce Young 366 for 547, 4872 yards, 66.9%, 47 TD, 7 INT (note: plus 3 rushing TDs)
Mac Jones 311 for 402, 4500 yards, 77.4%, 41 TD, 4 INT (plus one rushing TD)
Tua 245 for 355, 3966 yards, 69.0%, 43 TD, 6 INT (plus 5 rushing TDs)
Jalen Hurts** 240 for 382, 2780 yards, 62.8%, 23 TD, 9 INT (13 rushing TDs as well)
Jake Coker 263 for 393, 3110 yards, 66.9%, 21 TD, 8 INT (plus 2 rushing TDs)
Blake Sims 252 for 391, 3487 yards, 64.5%, 28 TD, 10 INT (plus 7 rushing TDs)
Greg McElroy 222 for 313, 2987 yards, 70.9%, 20 TD, 5 INT (1 rush TD)
JP Wilson 255 for 462, 2846 yards, 57.9%, 18 TD, 12 INT (5 rushing TDs)
Brodie Croyle 202 for 339, 2499 yards, 59.6%, 14 TD, 4 INT (1 rush TD)
Zow/Watts 1999 195 for 347, 2297 yards, 56.2%, 14 TD, 14 INT
Freddie Kitchens 152 for 302, 2124 yards, 50.3%, 14 TD, 14 INT
Jay Barker 139 for 226, 1996 yards, 61.5%, 14 TD, 5 INT
Gary Hollingsworth 205 for 339, 2379 yards, 60.5%, 14 TD, 16 INT
Mike Shula 138 for 229, 2009 yards, 60.3%, 16 TD, 8 INT
Walter Lewis 114 for 256, 1991 yards, 56.3%, 14 TD, 15 INT

The wishbone era didn't lend itself to much passing, although Jeff Rutledge was the most consistent passer, with similar numbers in 1976 and 77, similar completions with a lower pct but better TD/INT numbers in 1978.

Scott Hunter 157 for 266, 2188 yards, 59.0%, 9 TD, 8 INT
Kenny Stabler 74 for 114, 956 yards, 64.9%, 9 TD, 5 INT
Steve Sloan 97 for 160, 1453 yards, 60.6%, 10 TD, 3 INT
Joe Namath 76 for 146, 1192 yards, 52.1%, 13 TD, 8 INT
Pat Trammell 75 for 133, 1035 yards, 56.4%, 8 TD, 2 INT (75 rushes for 279 yards, 5 TD)
Bart Starr 59 for 119, 870 yards, 49.6%, 8 TD, 6 INT

** - best year at Alabama; his Oklahoma year was substantially better

Off topic somewhat, but Penix Jr. had a similar stat line to Bryce Young's special year. More yardage (over 4900) but 11 fewer TDs.

It's just a shame both of those guys didn't win the NC with years like that.

But just posting this note to say I think we're going enjoy the new Bama/Deboer offense!

 

[saturdaysarebet]

I am only going with guys from the modern era . As in the past 30 years and I'll only go with 3 ....
1 - Tua
2 - Mac
3 - AJ

As for Hurts , I view his time at Alabama as a net negative .
Bryce was a very unique , miniature athlete . Sort of half Doug Flutie and half Kyler Murray . In other words , anything other than a championship level QB . I could expand on that , but would rather bow out other than saying Carolina fans witnessed just about what I had expected .

He did take Alabama to the championship game despite not having the great wide receivers or offensive line like the quarterbacks before or after him. Alabama's ONLY Heisman trophy winner and the year he didn't win, he finished sixth.

 

[saturdaysarebet]

1. Tua
2. Mac Jones
3. Bryce Young
4. Joe Namath
5. Jalen Hurts/Kenny Stabler

Tua won only one championship as a backup in 2017, yes. Also, he did not win a Heisman. Of course, only Bryce won that as a QB for Alabama. But trophies do not tell the entire story. Ask Dan Marino.

Mac had the best single season I've ever seen by a college QB. I don't care about half full stadiums. I don't care about whatever you want to say about the Covid season. That was an 11 game SEC schedule followed up by Notre Dame and Ohio State and he put up 4500 yards, 41 TDs, and just 4 INTs. I still say while Smitty deserved the Heisman, Mac not finishing second was an absolute travesty.

Bryce is 3rd because I simply don't see the tools and talent at the level of the top two guys. But he was a a magician on a broken play. First Heisman QB for Alabama.

Joe Namath was a cultural icon. In today's offenses he would have broken records. And modern surgery would have probably saved his career. It was a great career nontheless.

I can't leave Jalen or the Snake off the list. It's just impossible. If Nick Saban can have co-starters, I can have co-placements.

Marino not having trophies is of his own doing, or should I say choking. Marino should wear a baker's hat he created so many turnovers. In college, he threw 64 interceptions. That's not a typo. 74 tds and 64 interceptions.

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR -outplayed at home by the great Tony Eason
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!

Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/new...er-no-3-pitt-one-of-biggest-in-school-history

Marino never won a title even in high school where quarterbacks dominate play.

 

[TideEngineer08]

Marino not having trophies is of his own doing, or should I say choking. Marino should wear a baker's hat he created so many turnovers. In college, he threw 64 interceptions. That's not a typo. 74 tds and 64 interceptions.

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR
'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR
'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR -outplayed at home by the great Tony Eason
'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR
'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR
1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!
1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR
1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!

Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed. Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino. They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw. So it wasn't he had no defense, he had no running backs, he had no OL. He had it all at times and still choked.

https://floridastate.rivals.com/new...er-no-3-pitt-one-of-biggest-in-school-history

Marino never won a title even in high school where quarterbacks dominate play.

I’m sorry Dan Marino hurt you.

 

[HMM]

My two favorite are AJ and Brodie. I’d love to have seen what Brodie could have done under NS. And during AJ’s playing years were some of the most fun I’ve had as a Bama fan. I still watch some of those games.

 

[saturdaysarebet]

I’m sorry Dan Marino hurt you.

Every big game. Every post-season.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Marino not having trophies is of his own doing, or should I say choking. Marino should wear a baker's hat he created so many turnovers. In college, he threw 64 interceptions. That's not a typo. 74 tds and 64 interceptions.

The part you didn't mention is that unlike almost any other QB, Marino PLAYED FOUR FULL SEASONS of college ball. Doug Flutie threw 54 with 67 TDs and won the Heisman. And let's be fair - he was injured most of his senior year, which is why he dropped so low that the Super Bowl runner-up drafted him. How many teams in that draft wished they'd picked him later? Try most of them.

Marino choked in big games: stats don't lie:
'83 playoff team vs Seattle 2 Ints 77.6 QBR

Totally Marino's fault that Miami lost three fumbles, botched a PAT, and that his defense blew a 20-17 lead with 3:30 left by letting Seattle drive 67 yards to score the winning TD. Totally his fault Fulton Walker fumbled the ensuing kickoff to ice the game.
Totally choking when he led them to take the lead with 3:43 left.
One of those interceptions was the last offensive play of the first half (context matters).

'84 SB vs SF 2 ints 66.9 QBR

Again, totally his fault that the Miami defense gave up 28 first-half points. He threw for 318 yards against a team that averaged giving up 211.

'85 vs NE at home 2 ints 54.9 QBR -outplayed at home by the great Tony Eason

Totally Marino's fault that Dan Johnson dropped a TD pass.
Totally his fault Miami fumbled FOUR times (well, the one he did, okay).
Totally his fault Miami had the worst rushing defense of any team in the playoffs (the five worse than them all had losing records) and let New England run for 255 yards.

Tony Nathan fumbled the ball away the first play of the game, does he get any blame for the loss?

So does Marino get ANY credit for rallying Miami from 18 points down in the second half against Cleveland? I notice for some reason you didn't bring that one up.

'90 vs Buffalo 2 ints 72.1 QBR

He also threw for 323 yards and 3 TDs and rushed for another one.
Again - his DEFENSE gave up 44 points and his kick returner fumbled a kickoff when they were already trailing, 37-27. Jim Kelly, who won that game while throwing an interception, never won a Super Bowl, so was he a choker, too?

'92 vs Buffalo at home 2 ints 56.5 QBR

He also threw for more yards than Jim Kelly, but I'm sure Marino is to blame for the points the defense surrendered in this scenario, too. No, he didn't play well in this one.

The only playoff loss he played well
'94 vs SD 0 ints 109.8 QBR

Not true. He accounted for four TDs in the 1990 playoffs against the Bills.
But Buffalo scored 44 points so apparently that's Marino's fault.

1995 vs Buffalo 3 ints 63.4 QBR

Threw for 422 yards and 3 TDs (why do you keep only showing part of the data?)
And yes, totally Marino's fault that Buffalo rushed for a playoff record 351 yards.
At home.

1997 vs NE 2 ints 29.3 QBR!

The Dolphins were a 9-7 team and went 0-3 against New England.

1998 vs Denv 2 ints 65.5 QBR

Totally Marino's fault the NFL's #1 defense gave up 31 points.
Totally his fault he accounted for 243 of their 252 offensive yards, too.

As a reminder that Denver team won the Super Bowl, so saying Marino choked is ludicrous here.

1999 vs Jax 2 ints 34.6 QBR!

As I recall quite vividly before eating at Applebee's that afternoon (beef fajita quesadilla with fries and a Diet Coke), Jax scored SIXTY-TWO points.

Two-interception Marino was a big game choking turnover machine!

You don't even believe this.
John Elway threw for 1 INT and no TDs and only 123 yards in the biggest game he was ever in.
But he won, so nobody brings it up.

Five times in his career Marino had a top 10 defense in points allowed.

1983 (#1) - gave up 27 points to Seattle at home.
1984 (7th) - but they were playing the #1 defense in the NFL, too - and gave up 38 points
1990 (4th) - and they gave up 44 points in the playoff game.
1992 (11th) - so does Marino get credit for taking a non-Top 10 defense to the AFC title game?
1994 (17th) - again, does Marino get credit for the playoff berth?
1995 (t 10th) - and gave up 351 rushing yards to Buffalo and fell behind, 27-0
1997 (16th) - again, does Marino get credit for making the playoffs?
1998 (#1) - and gave up 31 points to the eventual Super Bowl champions

Three times he had a top five defense. Twice he had a defense that led the league in fewest points allowed. How'd that work out for two-turnover Danny?

Again, how is it Marino's fault that those two defenses gave up 27 and 31 points while the other one gave up 44 in a game Marino was responsible for FOUR TDs?

Marino played for not just one but TWO hall of fame coaches that BOTH WON TWO SUPER BOWLS without Dan Marino.

Yes, and Charles Haley won five Super Bowl rings...I never hear his name when we're talking greatest LB or DE.

Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl.
Eli Manning and Jim Plunkett won two...and nobody with a brain would pick either one of those two over Dan Marino in "game you have to win."

They knew how to win Super Bowls. Marino choked in big games.

At this point, we're at Frank Costanza wanting to contest the feats of strength.

He even choked at Pitt when he had what Bobby Bowden called the greatest college football team he ever saw.

He threw for 286 yards despite his team turning the ball over seven times....yeah, he threw three picks, he also threw two TDs. Again, blaming Marino for stuff like:
- his RB fumbling the ball away at their own 22
- his punt returner fumbling away the ball at his own 24
- a different RB fumbling at his own 29

All completely Marino's fault.

So it wasn't he had no defense,

As I showed above, they didn't show up to play when it mattered.
Oftentimes, HE DID and they didn't.

he had no running backs, he had no OL.

They had a decent split backfield with Tony Nathan and Andra Franklin in 1983 and 1984.
Then he had names out of a phone book like Lorenzo Hampton, Sammie Smith (druggie), Mark Higgs (??), a washed up Keith Byars, Bernie Parmalee, and Karim Abdul-Jabar; notice that he didn't have a Terrell Davis, which is when Elway crossed the line to finally win one.

He had it all at times and still choked.

No, he didn't. Marino was not some guy who walked in to play QB with the 1985 Bears defense and the 1999 Rams offense with him running the plays. He had a few bad playoff games, and he had some good ones where his team's defense leaked like a sieve.

Marino never won a title even in high school where quarterbacks dominate play.

And yet he overcame all that to co-star in "Ace Ventura", right?

 

[CrimsonTitles]

Understood. I didn't say he didn't play with heart, he is just not a favorite of mine. He was very competitive. I just like 6 QBs in front of him more. That's all. He was not so great in the SEC Championship game with Georgia in 2018 and even worse against Clemson. And sure, LSU in 2019 was a buzzsaw. Just my opinion and I knew it would be unpopular lol.

That LSU game, we win with a 100% healthy Tua.

 

[saturdaysarebet]

The part you didn't mention is that unlike almost any other QB, Marino PLAYED FOUR FULL SEASONS of college ball. Doug Flutie threw 54 with 67 TDs and won the Heisman. And let's be fair - he was injured most of his senior year, which is why he dropped so low that the Super Bowl runner-up drafted him. How many teams in that draft wished they'd picked him later? Try most of them.




Totally Marino's fault that Miami lost three fumbles, botched a PAT, and that his defense blew a 20-17 lead with 3:30 left by letting Seattle drive 67 yards to score the winning TD. Totally his fault Fulton Walker fumbled the ensuing kickoff to ice the game.
Totally choking when he led them to take the lead with 3:43 left.
One of those interceptions was the last offensive play of the first half (context matters).




Again, totally his fault that the Miami defense gave up 28 first-half points. He threw for 318 yards against a team that averaged giving up 211.




Totally Marino's fault that Dan Johnson dropped a TD pass.
Totally his fault Miami fumbled FOUR times (well, the one he did, okay).
Totally his fault Miami had the worst rushing defense of any team in the playoffs (the five worse than them all had losing records) and let New England run for 255 yards.

Tony Nathan fumbled the ball away the first play of the game, does he get any blame for the loss?

So does Marino get ANY credit for rallying Miami from 18 points down in the second half against Cleveland? I notice for some reason you didn't bring that one up.



He also threw for 323 yards and 3 TDs and rushed for another one.
Again - his DEFENSE gave up 44 points and his kick returner fumbled a kickoff when they were already trailing, 37-27. Jim Kelly, who won that game while throwing an interception, never won a Super Bowl, so was he a choker, too?



He also threw for more yards than Jim Kelly, but I'm sure Marino is to blame for the points the defense surrendered in this scenario, too. No, he didn't play well in this one.




Not true. He accounted for four TDs in the 1990 playoffs against the Bills.
But Buffalo scored 44 points so apparently that's Marino's fault.




Threw for 422 yards and 3 TDs (why do you keep only showing part of the data?)
And yes, totally Marino's fault that Buffalo rushed for a playoff record 351 yards.
At home.



The Dolphins were a 9-7 team and went 0-3 against New England.



Totally Marino's fault the NFL's #1 defense gave up 31 points.
Totally his fault he accounted for 243 of their 252 offensive yards, too.

As a reminder that Denver team won the Super Bowl, so saying Marino choked is ludicrous here.



As I recall quite vividly before eating at Applebee's that afternoon (beef fajita quesadilla with fries and a Diet Coke), Jax scored SIXTY-TWO points.



You don't even believe this.
John Elway threw for 1 INT and no TDs and only 123 yards in the biggest game he was ever in.
But he won, so nobody brings it up.




1983 (#1) - gave up 27 points to Seattle at home.
1984 (7th) - but they were playing the #1 defense in the NFL, too - and gave up 38 points
1990 (4th) - and they gave up 44 points in the playoff game.
1992 (11th) - so does Marino get credit for taking a non-Top 10 defense to the AFC title game?
1994 (17th) - again, does Marino get credit for the playoff berth?
1995 (t 10th) - and gave up 351 rushing yards to Buffalo and fell behind, 27-0
1997 (16th) - again, does Marino get credit for making the playoffs?
1998 (#1) - and gave up 31 points to the eventual Super Bowl champions




Again, how is it Marino's fault that those two defenses gave up 27 and 31 points while the other one gave up 44 in a game Marino was responsible for FOUR TDs?




Yes, and Charles Haley won five Super Bowl rings...I never hear his name when we're talking greatest LB or DE.

Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl.
Eli Manning and Jim Plunkett won two...and nobody with a brain would pick either one of those two over Dan Marino in "game you have to win."



At this point, we're at Frank Costanza wanting to contest the feats of strength.



He threw for 286 yards despite his team turning the ball over seven times....yeah, he threw three picks, he also threw two TDs. Again, blaming Marino for stuff like:
- his RB fumbling the ball away at their own 22
- his punt returner fumbling away the ball at his own 24
- a different RB fumbling at his own 29

All completely Marino's fault.



As I showed above, they didn't show up to play when it mattered.
Oftentimes, HE DID and they didn't.



They had a decent split backfield with Tony Nathan and Andra Franklin in 1983 and 1984.
Then he had names out of a phone book like Lorenzo Hampton, Sammie Smith (druggie), Mark Higgs (??), a washed up Keith Byars, Bernie Parmalee, and Karim Abdul-Jabar; notice that he didn't have a Terrell Davis, which is when Elway crossed the line to finally win one.




No, he didn't. Marino was not some guy who walked in to play QB with the 1985 Bears defense and the 1999 Rams offense with him running the plays. He had a few bad playoff games, and he had some good ones where his team's defense leaked like a sieve.



And yet he overcame all that to co-star in "Ace Ventura", right?

How many lies do you tell yourself to make you feel better about your hero Dan Marino? He played all 11 games his senior year, attempted more passes than any other, threw more interceptions 22 to touchdowns 17 because he was partying and doing coke (not the soft drink).

Dan Marino College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out Dan Marino's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

He was drafted by a team that was JUST IN THE SUPER BOWL and do you think it was David Woodley's quarterback play that got them there? Or maybe Miami's defense the Killer Bees???

So you think those incredibly low quarterback passer ratings are made up lies? Or do you think Marino throwing interception and after interception had anything to do with it. Did you know Trent Dilfer's Super Bowl quarterback rating is higher than Dan Marino's? That's how bad Marino played then and in big games. Check out how his QBR rating drops in the post-season compared to the regular season. Stats don't lie sir. Notice which quarterback improved the most in the post-season compared to his regular season. None other than Alabama's Bart Starr. Second, Terry Bradshaw. Big game players. Not choking dogs.

Marino took the Dolphins to as many Super Bowls as David Woodley and he won as many as you did.