Bama vs. UF Postgame Thread...
- Thread starter uconnhoops
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I guess Trevor Releford and Charles Hankerson aren't young talents. Did you miss the Rivals Top 5 rated class he pulled in last year? Did you miss the part about Alabama not having any instate talent in 2012 that were at positions of need plus the fact we only have 1 scholarship to offer for 2012?
You win. 2.5 years is enough time to turn a cesspool of a program around especially when your two most experienced players that you inherited from the previous coach have shown the maturity of a high school junior.
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I thought Bama basketball had something going earlier this season; however, I must say they went in reverse a after a seemingly "fast" start. While Grant gives the appearance of Joe Cool, I'm beginning to wonder about his management of the program while drawing close to $2M a year. It would take a long time to look at the deltas. For starters, they seem to have no clue how to attack a zone and simply pass the ball around the perimeter until they have to rush a late shot to beat the shot clock. They act like they're afraid to shoot the ball! I realize they have limitations around the post - even more reason jack it up from the outside or drive to the basket. If it gets blocked, maybe somebody can pick up the loose change close to the basket. Maybe some outside shots will eventually fall. The game tonight was an embarassing display in my opinion. It looked like a carbon copy of the game against Vandy earlier at home. The turnovers, many unforced, looked like a Jr. High team; clunkers from the free shot line - even Releford. Some of the most bone-headed moves on a basketball court I've ever seen. How in the world does this team go for 9 minutes without scoring a single point and just blowing any chance of winning. Somewhere in the vicinity of 20 turnovers. OK flame away if you will, but I'm not a happy camper with what I witnessed tonight.
Did we really expect to win the last two games without our two best players? Bad attitudes or not a coach is only as good as his players and those two are by far the best we have at the moment. They are kids and kids do stupid things and make bad decisions. Kudos to CAG for sticking to his guns and building a program on character. "Talent is a gift, character is a choice." - CAG
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
It only takes 1 bad apple in bball to ruin an entire team, the players have no confidence in their shots they need to keep shooting and the shots will start to fall, guey? had major surgery and will get better, both bigs need work but they are playing and getting better,when the fan support is there the types of players we can get will get better. CAG has improved the team from the previous coach and will be a good coach if he is allowed to continue, the teams play hard nose D and hustle the O is lacking in confidence and playing thru it and making shots will get it going, i hope that people will support the team and if going to bash the coach or players at least attend the games and fill the areana up.
It only takes 1 bad apple in bball to ruin an entire team, the players have no confidence in their shots they need to keep shooting and the shots will start to fall, guey? had major surgery and will get better, both bigs need work but they are playing and getting better,when the fan support is there the types of players we can get will get better. CAG has improved the team from the previous coach and will be a good coach if he is allowed to continue, the teams play hard nose D and hustle the O is lacking in confidence and playing thru it and making shots will get it going, i hope that people will support the team and if going to bash the coach or players at least attend the games and fill the areana up.
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
Well, we lost. Our outside defense was semi-good, our interior defense was semi-bad (and that's putting it kindly), we had way to many TO's, and left way to many points at the FT line. We had 18 TO's and UF scored 24 points off of them. We cut those to around ten and and we cut UF's points by at least 8. Not to mention the 8 more shots we get. At 40% that's at least six more points. We shoot 70% from the line instead of 50% and that's 5 more points. If we take away 8 points from UF and score 11 more ourselves, that's a ten point Bama win. But we didn't, now, we can either feel sorry for ourselves, or climb back on the horse and beat UT Saturday. I for one think CAG did what he thought was best,and we're lightyears ahead of where we were five years ago.
Well, we lost. Our outside defense was semi-good, our interior defense was semi-bad (and that's putting it kindly), we had way to many TO's, and left way to many points at the FT line. We had 18 TO's and UF scored 24 points off of them. We cut those to around ten and and we cut UF's points by at least 8. Not to mention the 8 more shots we get. At 40% that's at least six more points. We shoot 70% from the line instead of 50% and that's 5 more points. If we take away 8 points from UF and score 11 more ourselves, that's a ten point Bama win. But we didn't, now, we can either feel sorry for ourselves, or climb back on the horse and beat UT Saturday. I for one think CAG did what he thought was best,and we're lightyears ahead of where we were five years ago.
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
I love Coach and hope he is here for a very long time. My only complaint is that he didn't take a tougher stand. Tell Releford and Steele, one game each. Tony, three games. Mike you are gone....etc.
The lack of certainty is hurting us. Kids playing out of position. Unsure of their role. Waiting for the return of Jordan and Pippen.....
Set your punishment and let's get busy. The vagueness of it all is very frustrating.
Also y'all lay off Moussa and Carl....the only ones to blame for their play is Tony and Green
The reason you don't see 7 rooters in college is that if they are great they go to the NBA...if they are average to good, they take time to develop....it wasn't their time yet...they were not ready. I have been pleased with their progress. When they aren't the focus they do well. They are struggling with the pressure.
One day soon you will be happy that they were wearing Crimson....just wait!
I love Coach and hope he is here for a very long time. My only complaint is that he didn't take a tougher stand. Tell Releford and Steele, one game each. Tony, three games. Mike you are gone....etc.
The lack of certainty is hurting us. Kids playing out of position. Unsure of their role. Waiting for the return of Jordan and Pippen.....
Set your punishment and let's get busy. The vagueness of it all is very frustrating.
Also y'all lay off Moussa and Carl....the only ones to blame for their play is Tony and Green
The reason you don't see 7 rooters in college is that if they are great they go to the NBA...if they are average to good, they take time to develop....it wasn't their time yet...they were not ready. I have been pleased with their progress. When they aren't the focus they do well. They are struggling with the pressure.
One day soon you will be happy that they were wearing Crimson....just wait!
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
It doesn't matter how well coached a team is, if you have no inside offensive threat because your two best players are suspended then defenses can focus on the perimeter shooters and you basically have no offense at all.
It doesn't matter how good outside shooters can actually shoot if they're covered up because the defense isn't worried at all about the inside game.
In my opinion we would have easily beaten LSU with Mitchell, Green, Releford and Steele. I think we would have beaten Florida with Green and Mitchell.
But Coach Grant stood by his principles and the principles the team should be following and it has ultimately resulted in a thread that questions his ability to coach.
Would you rather he had compromised the team's integrity and allowed the suspended players to play?
Would you be happier with two wins knowing that Grant caved in to the egos of individuals? Or would you stand behind him and respect him for doing what's right?
I remember Coach Saban's rant to the media after he lost his sixth game in his first year at Bama.
He basically said, "All you guys are interested in is winning NOW. My focus is winning the right way, and we're going to do it the right way, with players who do it the right way. And if they can't buy in then they'll be somewhere else. But as long as I'm here we're going to it the right way.
I know you think I sound crazy but you might as well get used to it cause it ain't gonna change."
Notice he said.."and if they can't buy in they'll be somewhere else."
That was Coach Saban saying that some players just simply can't be coached no matter what you do. Coach Saban would not be a bad coach if he could not get players like that to fulfill their potential.
Coach Grant has made a very difficult decision to suspend his two best players players because they obviously can't buy in to doing it "the right way." and they're obviously immune to any type of coaching or authority for that matter.
It would be easy for Coach Grant to think in terms of his own personal glory and grab the wins while he can, make the tourney, and look like the hero. But he has placed the needs of the long term Basketball program at the University of Alabama ahead of even his individual job security.
I call that being a truly great man of great character and I think he's a great coach as well.
He, in my opinion, has a brilliant future at U of A. I respect the difficult decisions he has been forced to make and I stand behind him 10,000 per cent.
Roll Tide!
sip
It doesn't matter how well coached a team is, if you have no inside offensive threat because your two best players are suspended then defenses can focus on the perimeter shooters and you basically have no offense at all.
It doesn't matter how good outside shooters can actually shoot if they're covered up because the defense isn't worried at all about the inside game.
In my opinion we would have easily beaten LSU with Mitchell, Green, Releford and Steele. I think we would have beaten Florida with Green and Mitchell.
But Coach Grant stood by his principles and the principles the team should be following and it has ultimately resulted in a thread that questions his ability to coach.
Would you rather he had compromised the team's integrity and allowed the suspended players to play?
Would you be happier with two wins knowing that Grant caved in to the egos of individuals? Or would you stand behind him and respect him for doing what's right?
I remember Coach Saban's rant to the media after he lost his sixth game in his first year at Bama.
He basically said, "All you guys are interested in is winning NOW. My focus is winning the right way, and we're going to do it the right way, with players who do it the right way. And if they can't buy in then they'll be somewhere else. But as long as I'm here we're going to it the right way.
I know you think I sound crazy but you might as well get used to it cause it ain't gonna change."
Notice he said.."and if they can't buy in they'll be somewhere else."
That was Coach Saban saying that some players just simply can't be coached no matter what you do. Coach Saban would not be a bad coach if he could not get players like that to fulfill their potential.
Coach Grant has made a very difficult decision to suspend his two best players players because they obviously can't buy in to doing it "the right way." and they're obviously immune to any type of coaching or authority for that matter.
It would be easy for Coach Grant to think in terms of his own personal glory and grab the wins while he can, make the tourney, and look like the hero. But he has placed the needs of the long term Basketball program at the University of Alabama ahead of even his individual job security.
I call that being a truly great man of great character and I think he's a great coach as well.
He, in my opinion, has a brilliant future at U of A. I respect the difficult decisions he has been forced to make and I stand behind him 10,000 per cent.
Roll Tide!
sip
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
Wow, looks like I missed the show on TF last night. If folks had been playing Mr. Valentine instead of being bitter, haters on TF, they might still have posting priveledges.....and they'd have woken with a smile on their face too.
Wow, looks like I missed the show on TF last night. If folks had been playing Mr. Valentine instead of being bitter, haters on TF, they might still have posting priveledges.....and they'd have woken with a smile on their face too.
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Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
I don't like our chances next season, if for no other reason than the fact that two pretty good programs are starting league play in the SEC. Texas A&M and Missouri. While those two won't make the league any tougher next season on the football field, you can rest assured that basketball will get tougher with them in the SEC. I don't see CAG making it past the next couple of years. I'd like to see him be successful, but I just don't see it happening. It was one thing when he was in his first season and still had Gottfried's players, but this is his third season. By Saban's second season, he won 12 games and a division title even with a good bit of Shula era players still on the roster and then parlayed that into a BCS National Title in 2009. That's not to say that I think CAG should bring home a national title in his third year, but dang, I'd at least like to see some separation from the Gottfried years. Last night looked like the late part of the 2008-2009 season when Gottfried had been ousted and Pearson was attempting to weather the storm. I really don't want Grant gone, because that would mean yet another re-start for the program. But, something has got to change by next season.
I don't like our chances next season, if for no other reason than the fact that two pretty good programs are starting league play in the SEC. Texas A&M and Missouri. While those two won't make the league any tougher next season on the football field, you can rest assured that basketball will get tougher with them in the SEC. I don't see CAG making it past the next couple of years. I'd like to see him be successful, but I just don't see it happening. It was one thing when he was in his first season and still had Gottfried's players, but this is his third season. By Saban's second season, he won 12 games and a division title even with a good bit of Shula era players still on the roster and then parlayed that into a BCS National Title in 2009. That's not to say that I think CAG should bring home a national title in his third year, but dang, I'd at least like to see some separation from the Gottfried years. Last night looked like the late part of the 2008-2009 season when Gottfried had been ousted and Pearson was attempting to weather the storm. I really don't want Grant gone, because that would mean yet another re-start for the program. But, something has got to change by next season.
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Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
That one was hard to watch.
Someone on the board said improving a basketball team is a lot easier than doing the same with a football program. I disagree. One transcendent player can win you a lot of games, but then he moves on. There is no rule that keeps players in school for three years. And given the smaller numbers, the egos and agendas inside and outside the locker room are a much larger factor.
We had one of the best recruiting classes in the country last year, and a solid group of veterans returning off a successful season. But then the veterans won't listen and the kids can't shoot, and suddenly everybody wants to know what's wrong with the coach.
BUILDING a program takes time. Look how long it took C.M. Look how long it took Coach K. The kids didn't play well last night. But they competed. They will play better. But it will take time. Anthony Grant is just getting started.
That one was hard to watch.
Someone on the board said improving a basketball team is a lot easier than doing the same with a football program. I disagree. One transcendent player can win you a lot of games, but then he moves on. There is no rule that keeps players in school for three years. And given the smaller numbers, the egos and agendas inside and outside the locker room are a much larger factor.
We had one of the best recruiting classes in the country last year, and a solid group of veterans returning off a successful season. But then the veterans won't listen and the kids can't shoot, and suddenly everybody wants to know what's wrong with the coach.
BUILDING a program takes time. Look how long it took C.M. Look how long it took Coach K. The kids didn't play well last night. But they competed. They will play better. But it will take time. Anthony Grant is just getting started.
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
Agreed. At my level two players on the starting 5 can make a HUGE difference in a W or L on Offense. BBall is basically a 3 man game on offense and everyone else playing their role. I still don't see a lot of 3 man game when we come down the court. When you have to play against a zone, you better be able to 1. Hit the 3 and 2. the HP needs to be a great passer. We have great physical specimens on the court, the BBall sense is not there yet with the younger players.
Agreed. At my level two players on the starting 5 can make a HUGE difference in a W or L on Offense. BBall is basically a 3 man game on offense and everyone else playing their role. I still don't see a lot of 3 man game when we come down the court. When you have to play against a zone, you better be able to 1. Hit the 3 and 2. the HP needs to be a great passer. We have great physical specimens on the court, the BBall sense is not there yet with the younger players.
I am not going to go into a diatribe about how we need to hire a new coach. I happen to believe CAG deserves more time to right the ship, but I don't believe we are going to be better next year either. We have very few scholarships available which means we can't bring in the big guys we desperately need. It is not a knock on Carl and Moussa, but both were projects that have not really yielded results. If we are going to be any better we need a dominant kid inside like the kid at Miss State-Moultrie I think is his name.
As a dedicated fan who loves the Tide basketball program, I am deeply disillusioned. I thought we'd be a contender in the SEC this year and a shoe in for decent seed in the big tourney, but instead we are turning into an also ran. People are saying Coach can't manage the behavior of the kids, I beg to differ. Saban doesn't seem to have these issues of suspensions with a much bigger roster to manage. The fact is we are 3 years into CAG tenure here and we should NOT be having these kinds of issues period. If a kid is a problem, send a message and cut him loose. The biggest offenders are guys who are upperclassmen who should be leading the team, not sitting out uncertain suspensions. I do see that CAG is a better coach than Gottfried and has a much higher character, but the fact is we should be moving forward not backwards in year 3.
I honestly think Grant himself even thinks this is not one of his better jobs of coaching. We need to stick with him and let him work out the roster and behavior issues. Think of it this way, Coack K at Duke was on the hotseat at one time, but Duke stuck with him and got a slew of championships to show for their loyalty. I think CAG has the same potential, but he needs to figure this out and soon.
As a dedicated fan who loves the Tide basketball program, I am deeply disillusioned. I thought we'd be a contender in the SEC this year and a shoe in for decent seed in the big tourney, but instead we are turning into an also ran. People are saying Coach can't manage the behavior of the kids, I beg to differ. Saban doesn't seem to have these issues of suspensions with a much bigger roster to manage. The fact is we are 3 years into CAG tenure here and we should NOT be having these kinds of issues period. If a kid is a problem, send a message and cut him loose. The biggest offenders are guys who are upperclassmen who should be leading the team, not sitting out uncertain suspensions. I do see that CAG is a better coach than Gottfried and has a much higher character, but the fact is we should be moving forward not backwards in year 3.
I honestly think Grant himself even thinks this is not one of his better jobs of coaching. We need to stick with him and let him work out the roster and behavior issues. Think of it this way, Coack K at Duke was on the hotseat at one time, but Duke stuck with him and got a slew of championships to show for their loyalty. I think CAG has the same potential, but he needs to figure this out and soon.
I'm just gonna reply and then leave this post. I'm sure what I'm about to say has been mentioned in the first 8 pages, but I'm not searching through all the irrational drivel to check. Alabama has ZERO pure shooters. If you were watching the game last night, the announcers mentioned it several times. Florida could just sit back in their 2-3 zone in the second half. And before you start saying that's because we gave them a 16 point lead, they were already in the 2-3 before halftime. Florida had 5 shooters on the floor at one point. Alabama can't put 1 out there. Believe it or not, that does make a difference.
As for Mitchell and Green, it doesn't matter what kind of coach you are or how you handle things, at some point, somebody is gonna challenge your authority. Kudos to Grant for sitting them down and taking his lumps. It is Mitchell and Green's fault that they aren't playing, not Grants.
I'll say one more thing. During the Gottfried era, I genuinely hated to watch Bama basketball. They were lazy, undisciplined and made no adjustments. The team you saw last night, despite losing, were none of those things. Even after being down 14 points under 6 minutes, they were still fighting to get back in the game. They made more turnovers than normal, I imagine due to chemistry and inexperience, but they were still playing with discipline. And finally, sticking Steele in the middle of the 2-3 zone on offense was a fantastic adjustment since we have not a single three point shooter on the squad.
I'm still behind Grant until he is no longer having to rely on Gottfried's recruits to field a team.
As for Mitchell and Green, it doesn't matter what kind of coach you are or how you handle things, at some point, somebody is gonna challenge your authority. Kudos to Grant for sitting them down and taking his lumps. It is Mitchell and Green's fault that they aren't playing, not Grants.
I'll say one more thing. During the Gottfried era, I genuinely hated to watch Bama basketball. They were lazy, undisciplined and made no adjustments. The team you saw last night, despite losing, were none of those things. Even after being down 14 points under 6 minutes, they were still fighting to get back in the game. They made more turnovers than normal, I imagine due to chemistry and inexperience, but they were still playing with discipline. And finally, sticking Steele in the middle of the 2-3 zone on offense was a fantastic adjustment since we have not a single three point shooter on the squad.
I'm still behind Grant until he is no longer having to rely on Gottfried's recruits to field a team.
If we had green and mitchell we would be fine on the inside. We have to find 3p shooters. I think our offense would look so much better if we could knock down the open looks we get.
I hope gueyye gets leaping ability back because right now he has none.
I hope gueyye gets leaping ability back because right now he has none.
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
This is the first time they have had to be basketball players since kindergarten. I like the kids, they all play very hard on defense, which is often the biggest adaptation they have to make.
But they aren't ready to play against men. All of them need to be clear on what this season has shown them -- where they need to grow. And during the off season, all of them, including Releford, need to shoot 500 jump shots a day.
This is the first time they have had to be basketball players since kindergarten. I like the kids, they all play very hard on defense, which is often the biggest adaptation they have to make.
But they aren't ready to play against men. All of them need to be clear on what this season has shown them -- where they need to grow. And during the off season, all of them, including Releford, need to shoot 500 jump shots a day.
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
Are you really comparing Alabama basketball to Alabama football? Are you really comparing Coach Grant to Nick Saban. How many players can a football coach bring in a given year? How many can a basketball coach bring in? Apples to oranges. Just look at the SEC numbers. No separation from Gottfried? Grant has won more SEC games in 2.5 years than MG did in his first 3 or in his last 3. We played the #12 team in the nation without our two best players. What did you expect?
I really think some people post without putting things in perspective or knowing just how long it takes to build a basketball program. If we fire Anthony Grant I'm willing to bet his coaching career turns around before the Alabama basketball program wins the SEC and is winning multiple games in the NCAA tourney.
Are you really comparing Alabama basketball to Alabama football? Are you really comparing Coach Grant to Nick Saban. How many players can a football coach bring in a given year? How many can a basketball coach bring in? Apples to oranges. Just look at the SEC numbers. No separation from Gottfried? Grant has won more SEC games in 2.5 years than MG did in his first 3 or in his last 3. We played the #12 team in the nation without our two best players. What did you expect?
I really think some people post without putting things in perspective or knowing just how long it takes to build a basketball program. If we fire Anthony Grant I'm willing to bet his coaching career turns around before the Alabama basketball program wins the SEC and is winning multiple games in the NCAA tourney.
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
Thank you so much for stating that. You don't compare football to bball. You compare bball to bball. Since the previous poster used Saban I will use his equivalent in bball, Coach K. Not saying that Coach Grant is on Coach K's level right now but it does offer a better perspective. Coach K's first 3 years at duke went like this 17-13, 10-17, & 11-17. Think duke is glad they stuck it out. Tom Izzo went 16-16 & 17-12 his first two years at Mich St. Brad Stevens (butler coach) just went 16-12, maybe they should fire him after back to back ncaa runner up. Maybe i should come back closer to home. Billy Donovan, same coach who won back to back nat'l championships in bball, first 4 seasons were as follows 18-9, 17-11, 13-17, & 14-15.
Morale of the story: numbers don't tell the whole story, esp those in the first few years. Anthony Grant first years at Alabama are 17-15, 25-12, and currently 16-9. Seems like a solid career so far. If you gonna build a program you have to have an identity, and ours if tough nosed defense. The names have changed but the defense stays the same. Once Grant gets players who can play that same brand of defense and produce better offensively, the "stats, wins/losses" will take care of themselves.
Thank you so much for stating that. You don't compare football to bball. You compare bball to bball. Since the previous poster used Saban I will use his equivalent in bball, Coach K. Not saying that Coach Grant is on Coach K's level right now but it does offer a better perspective. Coach K's first 3 years at duke went like this 17-13, 10-17, & 11-17. Think duke is glad they stuck it out. Tom Izzo went 16-16 & 17-12 his first two years at Mich St. Brad Stevens (butler coach) just went 16-12, maybe they should fire him after back to back ncaa runner up. Maybe i should come back closer to home. Billy Donovan, same coach who won back to back nat'l championships in bball, first 4 seasons were as follows 18-9, 17-11, 13-17, & 14-15.
Morale of the story: numbers don't tell the whole story, esp those in the first few years. Anthony Grant first years at Alabama are 17-15, 25-12, and currently 16-9. Seems like a solid career so far. If you gonna build a program you have to have an identity, and ours if tough nosed defense. The names have changed but the defense stays the same. Once Grant gets players who can play that same brand of defense and produce better offensively, the "stats, wins/losses" will take care of themselves.
I'd rather have this happen now that later. Our guys need to see see that CAG aint putting up with any nonsense.
Give CAG some time, there is still residue from the last coach. Green and Mitchell should of been leaders this season and they failed. It reminds me of C Saban 2nd year. The team lost to Florida and then quit. Andre Smith turned his back on teammates and quit. Under Shula, his teams won one game in the month of November. I see the same thing with Green and Mitchell. Green is the Stephen Garcia of Basketball. We have true freshmen on this team that should grow. Some programs take longer to build up then others.
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