Bama vs. UF Postgame Thread...
- Thread starter uconnhoops
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Player development seems very lacking. The freshman have been playing regularly, but have not really improved much. At least it seems that way. Lacey is going backwards lately also. The coaching needs to get better and the players work harder too.
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Most player development happens during preseason and more playing time during the year. In BBall you don't get a week in between games to heal and train.
I don't know if this is what you are referring to, but it is generally hard to improve your skill set during the season. kids can improve their knowledge of the game, knowledge of the playbook, and game speed. But, skill development is done in the off-season.
Okay, so I got halfway through the thread before I decided to quit reading and just post.
First. The team CAG has in front of him (even with Mitcheel and Greene in the lineup) has a ton of potential. However, it is also full of question marks. There are 15 people on the roster. 5 of them (I believe) are upperclassmen. He has 10 Sophmores/Freshmen that he is either having to use as staretrs, or in the rotation. So to say this team is young would be an understatement. I know some teams out there (Kentucky for one), trends to live and die by underclassmen...but we didn't recruit those type guys. Yes, Randolph, Lacey, Cooper and other were top recruits (and have high ceilings), but they weren't like Anthony Davis of UK who was ready to be an All American when he stepped on campus. So, it takes time for some guys to get their feet under them. Jacobs is still pretty raw. Gueye is coming off a knee injury, and probably won't be at 100% until next year. The Swede is only in his 3rd full year of organized ball. Randolph, Cooper, and Lacey on any given night can carry the team...but aren't ready for the spotlight yet. So no matter how high expectations were coming in this year, they should have been tempered a bit by the multiple questions we had.
Second. As far as having a handle on things by year three when it comes to discipline...that's an assinine statement. People are people, and 18-22 year olds are going to do stupid things. It isn't about having "control" of the team, when a player gets suspended for lacking character. If that's the case Nick Saban didn't have control of the 2007 team, because some of those guys trie to derail "the process". You play with what you're dealt with, and when you don't like the cards you discard and draw a few more. That's what this boils down to. I don't care, at this point, if we lose out. I think it's more important LONG TERM that CAG stick by his guns with the discipline he has been dishing out.
Third. Anyone who thinks CAG should be on the hot seat is thinking pretty ridiculously. I'm sorry, but his teams have improved every year. This year has been a slight drop, but a lot of that is due to your two best players not taking their role as two best players on and off the court. He needs at least two more years to have his full plan in place. This wasn't an easy fix situation, no matter what some may think. I think a lot of fans are blinded by CNS bringing in a BCSNT in year. THe problem is, we don't get the same caliber recruits YEAR IN and YEAR OUT that football does. If that starts happening, then yes...you can start looking to CAG for more answers. Until, though, we get top quality recruits in multiple classes you really can't expect to be top 10 year after year. Then everyone wants to compare CAG to CMG. I'll say it like this, then I'll leave it alone...Character is more important than winning, and CMG and Character aren't synonymous. See how long he lasts in ACC country.
I'm sorry, but people are acting like the sky is falling. Yes, the lack of offense has been painful to watch. Lately, though, it's been due to no real inside presence. YEs, we have three point woes...but our best "shooters" are freshmen looking to make the adjustment from under 20ft to almost 21ft. ANyone who hasn't played basketball before wouldn't understand, but those of us who have know...a foot makes a huge difference. Until we get some solid play inside (whether that's from greene or mitchell returning, or the usdden explosion of Jacobs, who knows), and have a perimeter scoring threat...the offense will struggle. That's just part of the game...you can teach people to make good decisions ont he floor, but unless they are using their own time in the gym to shoot they aren't going to improve. That burden falls on to the players, and how hard they want to work.
First. The team CAG has in front of him (even with Mitcheel and Greene in the lineup) has a ton of potential. However, it is also full of question marks. There are 15 people on the roster. 5 of them (I believe) are upperclassmen. He has 10 Sophmores/Freshmen that he is either having to use as staretrs, or in the rotation. So to say this team is young would be an understatement. I know some teams out there (Kentucky for one), trends to live and die by underclassmen...but we didn't recruit those type guys. Yes, Randolph, Lacey, Cooper and other were top recruits (and have high ceilings), but they weren't like Anthony Davis of UK who was ready to be an All American when he stepped on campus. So, it takes time for some guys to get their feet under them. Jacobs is still pretty raw. Gueye is coming off a knee injury, and probably won't be at 100% until next year. The Swede is only in his 3rd full year of organized ball. Randolph, Cooper, and Lacey on any given night can carry the team...but aren't ready for the spotlight yet. So no matter how high expectations were coming in this year, they should have been tempered a bit by the multiple questions we had.
Second. As far as having a handle on things by year three when it comes to discipline...that's an assinine statement. People are people, and 18-22 year olds are going to do stupid things. It isn't about having "control" of the team, when a player gets suspended for lacking character. If that's the case Nick Saban didn't have control of the 2007 team, because some of those guys trie to derail "the process". You play with what you're dealt with, and when you don't like the cards you discard and draw a few more. That's what this boils down to. I don't care, at this point, if we lose out. I think it's more important LONG TERM that CAG stick by his guns with the discipline he has been dishing out.
Third. Anyone who thinks CAG should be on the hot seat is thinking pretty ridiculously. I'm sorry, but his teams have improved every year. This year has been a slight drop, but a lot of that is due to your two best players not taking their role as two best players on and off the court. He needs at least two more years to have his full plan in place. This wasn't an easy fix situation, no matter what some may think. I think a lot of fans are blinded by CNS bringing in a BCSNT in year. THe problem is, we don't get the same caliber recruits YEAR IN and YEAR OUT that football does. If that starts happening, then yes...you can start looking to CAG for more answers. Until, though, we get top quality recruits in multiple classes you really can't expect to be top 10 year after year. Then everyone wants to compare CAG to CMG. I'll say it like this, then I'll leave it alone...Character is more important than winning, and CMG and Character aren't synonymous. See how long he lasts in ACC country.
I'm sorry, but people are acting like the sky is falling. Yes, the lack of offense has been painful to watch. Lately, though, it's been due to no real inside presence. YEs, we have three point woes...but our best "shooters" are freshmen looking to make the adjustment from under 20ft to almost 21ft. ANyone who hasn't played basketball before wouldn't understand, but those of us who have know...a foot makes a huge difference. Until we get some solid play inside (whether that's from greene or mitchell returning, or the usdden explosion of Jacobs, who knows), and have a perimeter scoring threat...the offense will struggle. That's just part of the game...you can teach people to make good decisions ont he floor, but unless they are using their own time in the gym to shoot they aren't going to improve. That burden falls on to the players, and how hard they want to work.
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He was at the Ole Miss game. My kids really got a kick out of him. He wound up on the big screen on the scoreboard several times.
LMAO..Just out of curiosity..Did anyone at the game see this guy..Hilarious..
HAHA..I imagine kids do love him..A buddy of mine sent this pic to me..It nearly brought tears cause I was laughing so hard..I bet the Players get a chuckle looking at him from the court..
THere's also a guy that goes that has a box on his head with blinking lights as the eyes. We didn't realize until later that he stole that from the video of "I'm Sexy and I Know It."
I've been a HUGE Bama basketball fan since the late 60's. I actually used to listen to our games on the radio when Doug Layton was the play by play guy and I would keep a score book. Every game.
As a student in the mid 70's my room mate and I would sneak a peek at practice through the portals at what was then, "The Memorial Coliseum." C.M. Newton saw us one day and said, "Come on down and have a seat guys." He sat with us and smoked his pipe as he directed practice. We were in heaven.
We rarely missed a practice after that and Coach C would even let us retrieve made free throws and pass the ball back to the shooter in practice. We got to know T.R., Mule, Amp, Leon, Rickey, and others pretty well. We NEVER missed a home game. We'd sit front row behind the bench.
Anyway, I think I qualify as a loyal fan.
That being said, and I mean no offense to anyone here, but it amazes me that when we were 7-0 and ranked 12th in the nation you couldn't find a thread here that was over a page long with about 9-10 responses.
Thread title could be "I THINK WE CAN WIN THE NATIONAL TITLE", and there would be 16 views and maybe one response...lol..
But whoaaaaa. Let a little adversity step in and we start struggling a bit and suddenly everyone has an opinion of what's WRONG with the program.
At times like this I wish Coach Saban was a member of Tidefans and I wish I could read his response to some of the over the hill negative posts about Coach Grant.
He'd tuck some tails between some legs and rightfully so.
If you have absolutely nothing good to say when things are going good then don't suddenly appear out of the woodwork when things aren't going right.
In short, it's none of your business.
If my comments have offended you then, well, you know you're guilty of being a fair weather fan lol
If you take my comments and say, "Damn right", then you're a true fan of Bama Basketball.
What do I think will happen? I'd expect Green and Mitchell to be given one final chance. I think they'll come through.
I believe we'll make a strong run and finish the season and the S.E.C tournament with a performance that gains us a bid into the N.C.A.A. Tournament.
Once there, I think we'll progress farther than most think and I predict that Bama Basketball fans will be praising Coach Grant for his dedication to principle.
Time will tell.
Roll Tide!
Sip
As a student in the mid 70's my room mate and I would sneak a peek at practice through the portals at what was then, "The Memorial Coliseum." C.M. Newton saw us one day and said, "Come on down and have a seat guys." He sat with us and smoked his pipe as he directed practice. We were in heaven.
We rarely missed a practice after that and Coach C would even let us retrieve made free throws and pass the ball back to the shooter in practice. We got to know T.R., Mule, Amp, Leon, Rickey, and others pretty well. We NEVER missed a home game. We'd sit front row behind the bench.
Anyway, I think I qualify as a loyal fan.
That being said, and I mean no offense to anyone here, but it amazes me that when we were 7-0 and ranked 12th in the nation you couldn't find a thread here that was over a page long with about 9-10 responses.
Thread title could be "I THINK WE CAN WIN THE NATIONAL TITLE", and there would be 16 views and maybe one response...lol..
But whoaaaaa. Let a little adversity step in and we start struggling a bit and suddenly everyone has an opinion of what's WRONG with the program.
At times like this I wish Coach Saban was a member of Tidefans and I wish I could read his response to some of the over the hill negative posts about Coach Grant.
He'd tuck some tails between some legs and rightfully so.
If you have absolutely nothing good to say when things are going good then don't suddenly appear out of the woodwork when things aren't going right.
In short, it's none of your business.
If my comments have offended you then, well, you know you're guilty of being a fair weather fan lol
If you take my comments and say, "Damn right", then you're a true fan of Bama Basketball.
What do I think will happen? I'd expect Green and Mitchell to be given one final chance. I think they'll come through.
I believe we'll make a strong run and finish the season and the S.E.C tournament with a performance that gains us a bid into the N.C.A.A. Tournament.
Once there, I think we'll progress farther than most think and I predict that Bama Basketball fans will be praising Coach Grant for his dedication to principle.
Time will tell.
Roll Tide!
Sip
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Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
I have maintained that the current state of things in Alabama for players in HS is just not good for developing BASKETBALL players. I think Coaching is down, too many teams use athletic ability to win, and do not develop the Basketball skills needed down the line. I think AAU ball plays a big role, and the ESPN generation who would trather make the one highlight play in a game, than ten plain Basketball plays that just win games.
When I was young, I worked all the time on my game. I shot after practice, and did extra conditioning I read at night, books that taught fundamentals and basics, books on how great players developed their talents.
In the off-season, I played a lot, but would also work at home. I set up obstacle courses with rocks and sticks and would dribble through them, I would break a full court man press, shoot FTS with the game on the line, shoot jumpers and lay-ups over taller players - and all in my imagination.
I used to practice passing and catching off the brick wall on the drive, would speed dribble up the drive or road with the right hand, then back the other way with the left.
I just don't see a lot of kids doing this stuff anymore, especially in the South. You see more of it in Basketball states, and overseas. And you see the effects in international competition...............
Look at Gerald Wallace for instance - hailed as one of the greatest basketball players in state history, thoughts of entering the draft out of HS, then gets to UA and you see flaws and holes in his game from a fundamental standpoint.
Players are made in the off-season, in all sports
I have maintained that the current state of things in Alabama for players in HS is just not good for developing BASKETBALL players. I think Coaching is down, too many teams use athletic ability to win, and do not develop the Basketball skills needed down the line. I think AAU ball plays a big role, and the ESPN generation who would trather make the one highlight play in a game, than ten plain Basketball plays that just win games.
When I was young, I worked all the time on my game. I shot after practice, and did extra conditioning I read at night, books that taught fundamentals and basics, books on how great players developed their talents.
In the off-season, I played a lot, but would also work at home. I set up obstacle courses with rocks and sticks and would dribble through them, I would break a full court man press, shoot FTS with the game on the line, shoot jumpers and lay-ups over taller players - and all in my imagination.
I used to practice passing and catching off the brick wall on the drive, would speed dribble up the drive or road with the right hand, then back the other way with the left.
I just don't see a lot of kids doing this stuff anymore, especially in the South. You see more of it in Basketball states, and overseas. And you see the effects in international competition...............
Look at Gerald Wallace for instance - hailed as one of the greatest basketball players in state history, thoughts of entering the draft out of HS, then gets to UA and you see flaws and holes in his game from a fundamental standpoint.
Players are made in the off-season, in all sports
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I was referring to overall play. So yea, player knowledge and execution are the main things to improve during the season. This far into the season the freshman should not look like 'freshman' any more..
Shortly after I left Alabama and moved to Charlotte, Antawn Jameson was the big deal coming out of the public high schools here. One of our writers at the Observer belonged to the same YMCA as the kid, and while former pro and college players often showed up to play in the main game, Antawn never joined in.
He stood off on a side court by himself and worked. Jumping drills, shooting drills, conditioning. As a freshman at Carolina, he was skinny as a rail, but he dominated the ACC with effort, the quickest bounce in the league and an array of streamlined shots. He was a walking fundamental.
It's kind of sad watching the uh-oh moment for kids who never bothered to learn the game. They were sooooo much more athletic than anybody they ever faced. Then they get to college -- and find out what they should have been doing all those years before.
He stood off on a side court by himself and worked. Jumping drills, shooting drills, conditioning. As a freshman at Carolina, he was skinny as a rail, but he dominated the ACC with effort, the quickest bounce in the league and an array of streamlined shots. He was a walking fundamental.
It's kind of sad watching the uh-oh moment for kids who never bothered to learn the game. They were sooooo much more athletic than anybody they ever faced. Then they get to college -- and find out what they should have been doing all those years before.
Re: Anthony Grant...Inventory Should be Taken on his Status as Head Coach
Although I agree on a lot of what you said about coaching in both High School and AAU ball here in Alabama, I have to disagree with you a bit on the issue of Wallace. I went to Wallace's Rival HS, and we played against him AT LEAST twice a year. I also have seen him in less organized sessions playing ball in a local three and five man tournaments around where we live. The biggest problem he had when he got to Alabama was CMG. He was a starter from the get go, and going into SEC play was the top scorer in the league, then suddenly had his minutes cut from 28+ a game, to around 8 a game. The lack of leadership, coaching, and the fact it seemed like the coaches had NO CLUE what to do led him to jump ship after his first year. It took him a while to develop on an NBA level, but a lot of his stunted growth as a player is due to his one year at UA.
I never PERSONALLY liked him when we were wround each other (though I didn't dislike him either), and often heckled him for some of the way he played his game in HS (he turned into quite the diva), so Iwould be the last person to defend him if it weren't true...
AS I said, though, I do agree that in Alabama we do an awful job of developing basketball talent. The biggest reason is, as you guessed, is football...
Although I agree on a lot of what you said about coaching in both High School and AAU ball here in Alabama, I have to disagree with you a bit on the issue of Wallace. I went to Wallace's Rival HS, and we played against him AT LEAST twice a year. I also have seen him in less organized sessions playing ball in a local three and five man tournaments around where we live. The biggest problem he had when he got to Alabama was CMG. He was a starter from the get go, and going into SEC play was the top scorer in the league, then suddenly had his minutes cut from 28+ a game, to around 8 a game. The lack of leadership, coaching, and the fact it seemed like the coaches had NO CLUE what to do led him to jump ship after his first year. It took him a while to develop on an NBA level, but a lot of his stunted growth as a player is due to his one year at UA.
I never PERSONALLY liked him when we were wround each other (though I didn't dislike him either), and often heckled him for some of the way he played his game in HS (he turned into quite the diva), so Iwould be the last person to defend him if it weren't true...
AS I said, though, I do agree that in Alabama we do an awful job of developing basketball talent. The biggest reason is, as you guessed, is football...
I feel I have the right to criticize to some extent. I've been a season ticket holder since the late 90's. I am sick and tired of watching us get close to taking that next step to becoming a great team only to drop faster than a rock. It happened this year and it happened several times during CMG tenure. I talked us up to anyone who would listen this year. I go to the games and end up with my head in my hands because we show poor effort and end up losing games we should win. I ended last year at the NIT games in T-town with an almost certainty that we'd being the big dance this year only to see the team absolutely self destruct.
I see some very disturbing signs with this team. No CAG can not be there every minute of every day, but that is not the point. The reason CNS has an extremely disciplined team is that the kids fear him. CAG needs to instill a little fear in the guys to keep them in line. As a coach is it more important to be feared or respected? I think you need both and I don't see that from the kids right now. That simple fact is the major reason I am concerned.
I support Coach Grant and think he should get way more time to get this thing going the right way. However, I think it is just human nature that there is more posts when the team is doing poorly. When they win, you are happy. When they lose, you are wondering what is wrong and looking for opinions from fellow fans. So I don't think is quite fair to characterize those who are posting now as fair-weather fans. Some may be, but not all.
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