Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
Awful, awful, awful. Great troll job though, I'll give him that.
Four Bama football players arrested, are dismissed from team
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Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
I'm not ready to throw him under the bus, but based on what we know about BC at this point, he needs to be gone. If he were my employee, he'd be fired - and in may ways that's what his relationship with the university is.
Re: Any news on the progress of Eddie Williams and Brent Calloway?
In response to the Alex Scarborough article, I am astonished to say the least. Well, maybe I wouldn't be if I actually knew who Alex Scarborough was. But he makes a classic apples and oranges comparison by bringing in Ray Lewis as the new spiritual leader of reconciliation. Now count me among the skeptics (though I'm an evangelical) but....Ray Lewis has never actually told us what DID happen that night. I find it hard to make heroes out of those whose "redemption" comes from us still thinking he might actually have killed someone.
But it's worse than that. For starters, Ray Lewis was in the kind of environment where bad things happen, a bar. In this case we have an on campus assault that - thankfully - left nobody dead. Furthermore....unless the guys come out saying their confessions were beaten out of them, we already know more facts about this case than that one - namely that the accused are pretty much guilty as homemade sin on a popsicle stick. And there's a final complicating matter that does not concern the Baltimore Ravens - in this case some student-athletes at the UA attacked OTHER students at the UA ON THE CAMPUS OF THE UA! Lewis and his buddies were not involved in a fight with other members of the Ravens at the Ravens facility, so the analogy doesn't apply at any level.
I also want to go on the record as saying that Coach Saban has handled this perfectly thus far. He's going to get ripped no matter what by some folks....so may as well do what you think is right. He could have tossed them without hearing the facts, but he didn't. He could have no reacted at all, which also would have been wrong. Instead he's taking the wait and see approach, and I commend him for it.
Two other things to brace yourselves for:
1) When you are the current dynasty the standards rise exponentially. EVERY little incident (and no, I don't consider this a "little" incident) is automatically magnified because of who you are. Opponents of your program who cannot beat you will reach for every instance to discredit you. Get used to it - you'd still rather be in our shoes than theirs.
2) Someone will try to stir the pot with a suggestion of race being an issue with this story.
Get ready - it IS coming. Don't be surprised when you see it. And it will be a reflection of the one making the charge is all.
RTR
In response to the Alex Scarborough article, I am astonished to say the least. Well, maybe I wouldn't be if I actually knew who Alex Scarborough was. But he makes a classic apples and oranges comparison by bringing in Ray Lewis as the new spiritual leader of reconciliation. Now count me among the skeptics (though I'm an evangelical) but....Ray Lewis has never actually told us what DID happen that night. I find it hard to make heroes out of those whose "redemption" comes from us still thinking he might actually have killed someone.
But it's worse than that. For starters, Ray Lewis was in the kind of environment where bad things happen, a bar. In this case we have an on campus assault that - thankfully - left nobody dead. Furthermore....unless the guys come out saying their confessions were beaten out of them, we already know more facts about this case than that one - namely that the accused are pretty much guilty as homemade sin on a popsicle stick. And there's a final complicating matter that does not concern the Baltimore Ravens - in this case some student-athletes at the UA attacked OTHER students at the UA ON THE CAMPUS OF THE UA! Lewis and his buddies were not involved in a fight with other members of the Ravens at the Ravens facility, so the analogy doesn't apply at any level.
I also want to go on the record as saying that Coach Saban has handled this perfectly thus far. He's going to get ripped no matter what by some folks....so may as well do what you think is right. He could have tossed them without hearing the facts, but he didn't. He could have no reacted at all, which also would have been wrong. Instead he's taking the wait and see approach, and I commend him for it.
Two other things to brace yourselves for:
1) When you are the current dynasty the standards rise exponentially. EVERY little incident (and no, I don't consider this a "little" incident) is automatically magnified because of who you are. Opponents of your program who cannot beat you will reach for every instance to discredit you. Get used to it - you'd still rather be in our shoes than theirs.
2) Someone will try to stir the pot with a suggestion of race being an issue with this story.
Get ready - it IS coming. Don't be surprised when you see it. And it will be a reflection of the one making the charge is all.
RTR
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
2. Saban's role is not to be the criminal justice system. He is the head coach at The University of Alabama. His loyalty is to the University and to the Team first. These players would undermine team cohesiveness and discipline if allowed to remain.
3. These players are a threat to those around them (not talking about Calloway). They make me feel unsafe for my child, who is on campus right now. I do not want violent students who attack other students to be on campus.
4. Dear God, have we not learned anything with recent mass shootings and the like that you do not just keep violent people around and put others in danger in the process?! Even one person would be too many and these criminal are lucky both of their victims did not suffer death or serious permanent disability (which may remain to be seen at this point).
5. All these things and more show that it is not just about being heartless and not caring about these poor. poor kids. These kids have already had second chances, but there are some lines that when you cross them there is no going back. Ever. Most certainly at least 2 people have crossed that line if not 3, and the 4th is up for debate.
6. At this point, yes, I would lose faith and respect for the administration not only in the football program but in the University if these thugs were allowed to remain in school there, much less on the team; but it's more than that. As I mentioned, I have a kid there. There are a lot of other kids there that don't deserve to be placed in an potentially unsafe situation with "people" who are obviously cold and callous with others' lives.
So stop acting like wanting these players gone is a shame and a disgrace and motivated solely by "image". There is much more substance to it than that. It's a shame anyone would want them to stay and put their needs ahead of the team, the University, and the thousands of students there. That's the real shame. And it's a damn shame.
1. Alex Scarborough would be the very first person in line to stab Coach in the back as first opportunity for keeping these guys on the team if something similar or worse to ever happen again. That's the way idiots like him just are.
2. Saban's role is not to be the criminal justice system. He is the head coach at The University of Alabama. His loyalty is to the University and to the Team first. These players would undermine team cohesiveness and discipline if allowed to remain.
3. These players are a threat to those around them (not talking about Calloway). They make me feel unsafe for my child, who is on campus right now. I do not want violent students who attack other students to be on campus.
4. Dear God, have we not learned anything with recent mass shootings and the like that you do not just keep violent people around and put others in danger in the process?! Even one person would be too many and these criminal are lucky both of their victims did not suffer death or serious permanent disability (which may remain to be seen at this point).
5. All these things and more show that it is not just about being heartless and not caring about these poor. poor kids. These kids have already had second chances, but there are some lines that when you cross them there is no going back. Ever. Most certainly at least 2 people have crossed that line if not 3, and the 4th is up for debate.
6. At this point, yes, I would lose faith and respect for the administration not only in the football program but in the University if these thugs were allowed to remain in school there, much less on the team; but it's more than that. As I mentioned, I have a kid there. There are a lot of other kids there that don't deserve to be placed in an potentially unsafe situation with "people" who are obviously cold and callous with others' lives.
So stop acting like wanting these players gone is a shame and a disgrace and motivated solely by "image". There is much more substance to it than that. It's a shame anyone would want them to stay and put their needs ahead of the team, the University, and the thousands of students there. That's the real shame. And it's a damn shame.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
I've read, here or elsewhere I do not recall that these 4 are room mates. It is not unreasonable to assume that they came home and woke him up. My college room mates often woke me up in the middle of the night for some drunken hyjinks of some sort and I often did the same to them. At that age things like this happen often or at least they did to me (though they never involved stolen property)
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
I guess the add-on question would be, doesn't any other university that allowed these 3/4 (if convicted) on campus create a similar liability? Say they plea bargain down to something lesser that gets them out of jail-time, wouldn't the same exposure exist?
I fully understood that when I asked the questions. There are really no "ifs" here, the university has little choice.
I guess the add-on question would be, doesn't any other university that allowed these 3/4 (if convicted) on campus create a similar liability? Say they plea bargain down to something lesser that gets them out of jail-time, wouldn't the same exposure exist?
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
I agree 100% with you. Maybe he should move the 4 in with him and give them a second chance to try and kill another human being. He is entitled to his opinion but if he were old enough to have a teenager and it was his child who was almost killed. I wonder if he would write the same article.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
If CNS has a say in the decision -- and university jurisdiction could indeed trump him -- he will make the best-informed decision possible. Before he acts, he'll know the facts. He also knows the kids -- far better than anybody outside of their families. Can't imagine any of them will be on the team by fall, but if they are, Nick Saban will have his reasons, and he probably won't be sharing them with us.
Four Bama football players arrested...
They violated the student code of conduct regardless of what their legal outcome is. I see no way any of them will remain at the school. I'll just say that removal from the team or UA is the least of their problems.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
I also agree that when he makes a decision he will feel absolutely no need to explain it to anyone.
I agree on one point in particular. Saban will indeed place the pressure and the burden of having to face the media on himself and will take as much pressure as possible off the four in question.
I also agree that when he makes a decision he will feel absolutely no need to explain it to anyone.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
DT_kap: on TideFans.com
Been workin 10 hrs a day 6 days a week with few breaks. Only get to catch up on events short periods at a time I obviously didn't think out that post very well. Agree with most everything you wrote. Players should be permanently suspended and scholarships taken away for what they did and that is not shameful to believe. No place at any University for that. I just scanned the article. Should have not posted until I read the whole article. Will try to do that tonight. Peace and RTR.
DT_kap: on TideFans.comBeen workin 10 hrs a day 6 days a week with few breaks. Only get to catch up on events short periods at a time I obviously didn't think out that post very well. Agree with most everything you wrote. Players should be permanently suspended and scholarships taken away for what they did and that is not shameful to believe. No place at any University for that. I just scanned the article. Should have not posted until I read the whole article. Will try to do that tonight. Peace and RTR.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
The players involved in the beatings of two innocent UA students should be off the team now,not tomorrow or the next day.Saban needs to make a statement that there is zero tolerance for actions such as this by Bama players. I've heard that there is support for the four players by current and past Bama players.If so,one question,what are they supporting? What could they be thinking?That maybe it was an accident that four tremendously strong individuals beat the hell out of two innocent UA students? Again,what could anyone support in this incident?The four players showed udder contempt for the student body,the rest of the team and Bama tradition by their actions.Actually,they showed udder contempt for all their fellow-man.You just don't do that to other people.
The players involved in the beatings of two innocent UA students should be off the team now,not tomorrow or the next day.Saban needs to make a statement that there is zero tolerance for actions such as this by Bama players. I've heard that there is support for the four players by current and past Bama players.If so,one question,what are they supporting? What could they be thinking?That maybe it was an accident that four tremendously strong individuals beat the hell out of two innocent UA students? Again,what could anyone support in this incident?The four players showed udder contempt for the student body,the rest of the team and Bama tradition by their actions.Actually,they showed udder contempt for all their fellow-man.You just don't do that to other people.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
Yeah, and in that murder down at South Alabama, a Judge just dismissed the lawsuit against the University. The suit against the city and the police officer was allowed to proceed.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
Tis ok....I had a difficult long day yesterday and went on quite a rant last night myself.
Been workin 10 hrs a day 6 days a week with few breaks. Only get to catch up on events short periods at a time I obviously didn't think out that post very well. Agree with most everything you wrote. Players should be permanently suspended and scholarships taken away for what they did and that is not shameful to believe. No place at any University for that. I just scanned the article. Should have not posted until I read the whole article. Will try to do that tonight. Peace and RTR.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
The thing I can't stand about this incident is the reaction of some people. Swift retribution plays well in the 24-hr news cycle but it simply is not legally prudent. I don't even think the school can expel the accused whether they were athletes or regular students. It may take a plea bargain or a trial for the school administration to have anything actionable in that regard. Signed confessions point towards this being a quick process ending in a plea bargain and not a prolonged trial, but it still takes time.
The other thing that irks me our those who are participating in "program flagellation" in the last few days. The crimes are terrible and I truly am concerned about the victims but lets not make a mountain out of a molehill. Out of hundreds of men who have been through the program since Jimmy Johns and Elder, there hasn't been one major incident. With that many young men, it was bound to happen again. We haven't even had the typical bowl season ineligibility due to grades since Shula left! Lets just take this as an aberration until we start seeing a continuous pattern of discipline, academic, and criminal problems.
It's not like many of these indefinite suspensions have ended well for the suspended. It is usually a sign to start packing your bags and sending fliers to other programs.
The thing I can't stand about this incident is the reaction of some people. Swift retribution plays well in the 24-hr news cycle but it simply is not legally prudent. I don't even think the school can expel the accused whether they were athletes or regular students. It may take a plea bargain or a trial for the school administration to have anything actionable in that regard. Signed confessions point towards this being a quick process ending in a plea bargain and not a prolonged trial, but it still takes time.
The other thing that irks me our those who are participating in "program flagellation" in the last few days. The crimes are terrible and I truly am concerned about the victims but lets not make a mountain out of a molehill. Out of hundreds of men who have been through the program since Jimmy Johns and Elder, there hasn't been one major incident. With that many young men, it was bound to happen again. We haven't even had the typical bowl season ineligibility due to grades since Shula left! Lets just take this as an aberration until we start seeing a continuous pattern of discipline, academic, and criminal problems.
It's not like many of these indefinite suspensions have ended well for the suspended. It is usually a sign to start packing your bags and sending fliers to other programs.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
That's much better than the alternative, which we have seen many times and at many schools: a reflexive circle-the-wagons mentality that pretends that the football program is infallible. That leads to the kind of head-in-the-sand hero worship that we saw, for example, among some Penn State fans after the Paterno fiasco
I hear what you're saying, but I think I disagree a little bit. A few of the posts in this thread may have been overly negative, but overall I think it's a healthy thing that a negative event for the football program leads to questions/a bit of soul-searching.
That's much better than the alternative, which we have seen many times and at many schools: a reflexive circle-the-wagons mentality that pretends that the football program is infallible. That leads to the kind of head-in-the-sand hero worship that we saw, for example, among some Penn State fans after the Paterno fiasco
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
Yes, I agree. A healthy discourse isn't a problem but I think its a problem you see in business all the time. Get a bunch of executives in a room and all the sudden they will create a list of problems that are of critical priority which truly don't exist. Obviously we don't have that level of control over the direction of the AD at Alabama but it is still a wasted breath in this case.
Until I see some pattern of criminality and indiscipline, I'm not concerned in the least about the program as a whole. I don't think anyone let them down. I don't think there is much you can do with men at that age. I've seen plenty of mistakes made by men my age but they don't have the platform of college football to make it a public issue. As I've said earlier, you could group all the men on campus into a 105-count block and the if we treated each block with the level of concern we do about the 105 football players then we'd be in a perpetual state of panic. I imagine that the 105 football players probably would end up winning out over any other 105-count block in the University.
Yes, I agree. A healthy discourse isn't a problem but I think its a problem you see in business all the time. Get a bunch of executives in a room and all the sudden they will create a list of problems that are of critical priority which truly don't exist. Obviously we don't have that level of control over the direction of the AD at Alabama but it is still a wasted breath in this case.
Until I see some pattern of criminality and indiscipline, I'm not concerned in the least about the program as a whole. I don't think anyone let them down. I don't think there is much you can do with men at that age. I've seen plenty of mistakes made by men my age but they don't have the platform of college football to make it a public issue. As I've said earlier, you could group all the men on campus into a 105-count block and the if we treated each block with the level of concern we do about the 105 football players then we'd be in a perpetual state of panic. I imagine that the 105 football players probably would end up winning out over any other 105-count block in the University.
Re: Four Bama football players arrested...
Um, I think you mean "utter," rather than where you milk a cow. However, not to worry, the three accused of a felony are already banned from campus. You can take that back to wherever...
Four Bama football players arrested...
BJ Millican just tweeted that Eddie Williams has asked for permission to go back to FL while out on bond.
*BJ Millican is one of the sports producers at CBS 42. Usually reliable info on his twitter feed.
BJ Millican just tweeted that Eddie Williams has asked for permission to go back to FL while out on bond.
*BJ Millican is one of the sports producers at CBS 42. Usually reliable info on his twitter feed.
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