Another HS shooting - Santa Fe, TX (South of Houston)

chanson78

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What is sarcastic? I just figured he needed it drawn in crayon is all.

Lawyers living in giant houses commanding thousands of dollars proves there is nothing common about the law. There are as many interpretations of these laws as there are kudzu vines in Alabama.




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Well that went rather mean spirited in a hurry.

I'll ask it a different way. If solving the problem of mass shootings by any means that affects the 2A is too difficult, why is getting getting people to all believe in one creed any easier?

Platitudes about making people respect life and treating each other by the golden rule are great but they don't actually accomplish anything. I am just interested in an actual plan. If there isn't one, thats fine too. I just was trying to point out that societies have been trying to get people to all "just get along" for a very long time. Much longer than before guns were part of the picture. To think that you can get rid of mass shootings by making everyone believe the same way seems as or more difficult a resolution than those who suggest some measure of 2A curtailment.
 

AlexanderFan

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Well that went rather mean spirited in a hurry.

I'll ask it a different way. If solving the problem of mass shootings by any means that affects the 2A is too difficult, why is getting getting people to all believe in one creed any easier?

Platitudes about making people respect life and treating each other by the golden rule are great but they don't actually accomplish anything. I am just interested in an actual plan. If there isn't one, thats fine too. I just was trying to point out that societies have been trying to get people to all "just get along" for a very long time. Much longer than before guns were part of the picture. To think that you can get rid of mass shootings by making everyone believe the same way seems as or more difficult a resolution than those who suggest some measure of 2A curtailment.
It's not the same way. I don't care what route you take, even if you have to think "this guy is bullying me, but killing him would surely cut into my Fortnite playing time" I don't care, just a basic philosophical thinking that life is valuable and the taking of Life means dire consequences.


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uafan4life

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I've been telling people for longer than they want to listen that the problem lies directly with our society's failure - from the parents to the educational system - to teach proper conflict resolution to our children.

We teach conflict avoidance, placation, and ineffectual compromise while promising that everybody can be right and everybody can be a winner in everything.

We've projected such a fear of failure and a fragility upon our children that we've, in many ways, paralyzed their emotional and social growth when it comes to conflict, causing many to be completely unable to cope with unresolved conflict.

As a result, crap gets bottled up and bottled up until it explodes - seemingly always in a destructive way.

Combine that with a seemingly pervasive desire for fame - often at any cost - and you end up with a large number of copycat killers to go along with your run-of-the-mill sociopaths and mentally ill killers, making these incidents all that much more common.

While, theoretically, violence should never be the answer there are obviously times when it is the only answer. And, occasionally, it can be the simplest and even the best answer but only - ONLY -when measured.

We are generally violent creatures by nature and that needs an outlet. There are some potential benefits to good, old-fashioned, boys-being-boys, fist fights besides merely letting off steam, not the least of which is being able to eventually look each other in the eyes afterward.

It's okay if everything doesn't go your way. It's okay if you fail. It's okay - even if you're right and they're wrong - for you to lose and for someone else to get their way. It's okay if something isn't fair. That's just life. Life isn't fair, except in death.

The problem is that we simply aren't teaching our children how to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and keep on going after they face these things.

When that happens, all too often, they start viewing obstacles as things that CANNOT be overcome and then begin viewing either others or themselves as THE problem - and then they sometimes reach the point where the only solution they see is to permanently remove the problem.

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selmaborntidefan

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Spitballing. I’d imagine he was bullied and he probably viewed it as a righteous act of revenge. Or it could just be sociopathy. Or both. Who knows?

Video games are a stupid place to start, IMO. It’s like blaming Marilyn Manson for Columbine.
Yeah I know. Marilyn Manson killed Sharon Tate.
 

Bazza

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-snip- - to teach proper conflict resolution to our children. - snip-
Wow - very well said.

Conflict resolution.

I can't remember when I've ever seen this discussed.

Would like to hear from others here on this very topic.......

What do you teach your kids.....is this something being taught in schools...how important of a topic is this today in our society - especially for young people?
 

92tide

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Wow - very well said.

Conflict resolution.

I can't remember when I've ever seen this discussed.

Would like to hear from others here on this very topic.......

What do you teach your kids.....is this something being taught in schools...how important of a topic is this today in our society - especially for young people?
national education association - conflict resolution programs

Now, with thousands of conflict resolution programs in place, we know that such mediation promotes responsible, pro-social behavior, "improved communication, problem-solving, and critical thinking" (Van Steenbergen, 1994), p. 22). Improved academic performance is a particularly significant gain when conflict resolution skills are integrated into a content area, improving both conflict resolution skills (integrative thinking) and content comprehension (Johnson & Johnson, 1994). Conflict resolution programs improve students’ social and emotional skill development (National Institute of Dispute Resolution, 1997). Johnson and Johnson's (1995b, 1996) decades of research show that integrative thinking skills are almost non-existent prior to conflict resolution training, yet are often used spontaneously afterward.
 

jthomas666

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Ah, the GOP. They'll ban doors before they ban guns.


Oh, before anyone goes, "omiGOD, he's not calling for a ban on doors, you silly libtard", that is correct, he does not. It's a rhetorical exaggeration on my part, used to highlight that the GOP is so desperate to avoid any discussion of gun control that they will throw out blindingly moronic suggestions such as Patrick's instead.
 
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92tide

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Thanks, 92.

Any idea how this is taught? Is it integrated as a segment into a particular class.....such as Sociology?
i know nothing about their programs as i just found that on a quick google search. before you get too excited about it, i would remind you that the n.e.a. is the dreaded teacher's union. and i imagine things like conflict resolution programs involve lots of social workers. two very large boogeymen for most trump supporters and i would imagine many 2a advocates.
 
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Bazza

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i know nothing about their programs as i just found that on a quick google search. before you get too excited about it, i would remind you that the n.e.a. is the dreaded teacher's union. and i imagine things like conflict resolution programs involve lots of social workers. two very large boogeymen for most trump supporters and i would imagine many 2a advocates.
I don't have any human kids so i don't what's going on in school any more.

Just drawing on my own experiences as a kid back in the stone age....the only drills we had were in case of nuclear attack from the Russkies. My neighbor even had a bomb shelter.

I wonder what has changed since then......that causes all these shootings?
 

selmaborntidefan

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Ah, the GOP. They'll ban doors before they ban guns.


Oh, before anyone goes, "omiGOD, he's not calling for a ban on doors, you silly libtard", that is correct, he does not. It's a rhetorical exaggeration on my part, used to highlight that the GOP is so desperate to avoid any discussion of gun control that they will throw out blindingly moronic suggestions such as Patrick's instead.

It's not the GOP's fault that the Democratic-controlled Senate failed to pass gun control in 2013 when they had a 53-47 majority.



Don't even come back at me with "but filibuster."

They ran around that for Obamacare and they ran around it for judicial nominations.

They also didn't pass it when they held Congress AND the Presidency in 2009 and 2010 AFTER the Virginia Tech massacre and Ft Hood shootings.

So.....while we both agree this whole thing is tragic, don't even try to pretend that "well, we could pass gun control if it wasn't for those other guys and the NRA."

They could pass it if they actually WANTED to do so, too.


Here's a secret: they keep telling you they want to, but they really don't. Gun control for the Democrats has become the power source like Obamacare repeal for the GOP.

"Oh, we just need the House. Oh we just need the Senate. Oh we just need the Presidency."

The Dems had them all with bigger margins than the GOP in 2009 and 2010 and not a damn thing that prevented a single shooting.

I'm not blaming the Democrats for the shootings, but they already made clear their willingness to run around that little thing called the filibuster IF they really wanted to do it. They don't. Politicians WANT you in fear. It's the source of their power.
 

jthomas666

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It's not the GOP's fault that the Democratic-controlled Senate failed to pass gun control in 2013 when they had a 53-47 majority.
That's your point? Really? Perhaps it didn't pass, but at least they brought the subject up. They wrote a bill, they had hearings, and hell, the bill actually came to a vote. In short, they tried, which is a damn sight more than the GOP has done.

In the meantime, after God knows how many more shootings, not only does the GOP refuse to do anything (except for offer thoughts and prayers, of course), they go to any lengths to avoid the discussion (it's not a gun issue, it's a mental health issue--yet they do nothing about what they claim is the real cause--perhaps because they don't want to even suggest that there is a health care issue other than abortion that warrants government intervention).

Or today's classic, when the problem is too many freaking DOORS. (A friend of mine pointed out that Sandy Hook had just one door, btw.)

Or, my favorite, when students who were themselves SHOT AT have the unmitigated gall to call for the politicians to do something, those kids get demonized and labelled crisis actors.

But hey, damn those democrats, they could have done something, but they failed.

But at least they tried.
 
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