Let's Talk About the Elephant in the Room: OC Play Calling and Receiver Development

[CB4]

Is Billingsley injured or just going through the motions on field? Thought he might have a big game

Won’t be a issue next year. He entered the portal this afternoon.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

If you're saying some backups should start the game against weak opponents to avoid injury to the starters I'm all for that, but if you're saying put them in the game after we have it in the bag and have them run routes that creates a problem. If we start throwing the ball all over the field with a 30 point lead our opponents are going to accuse us of running up the score and I don't think they will accept the "our guys need experience" excuse.

They don't like it, they can stop it.
Book of things Steve Spurrier Probably Said

 

[Padreruf]

They don't like it, they can stop it.
Book of things Steve Spurrier Probably Said

Bobby Bowden once said it was his job to score and the other team's job to stop them.

 

[Evil Crimson Dragon]

Won’t be a issue next year. He entered the portal this afternoon.

Honestly, after the issues with him, it's probably for the best

 

[selmaborntidefan]

BOB taking an NFL job may render this discussion pointless, but if that happens some of this is still applicable.

Since the D did their job last night, let's talk about the biggest mystery of 2022 looking forward: Playcalling and Wide Outs.

First, we know we had elite guys under Sark...probably won't ever see that kind of talent on one team for two years in a row again!

However, what we don't know is how much closer current and recruited players could get to that level with different development and/or different playcalling.

That's the one big difference with Sark! He found simple and easy ways to get his playmakers in space and he'd run it over and over until it was stopped (Remember the little play where Smitty would go in motion and then stop, reverse directions and run a little flair in the flats???). Saw it over and over in the playoffs last year.

BOB seemed to only have way one way to do that: send JW deep OR long developing crossing routes. That seems to be the biggest difference in Sark (and Lane) and BOB. They seemed to develop routes that got people more wide open. It seemed like BY was having to hit tighter windows much of the year with the exception of JW getting past the defense with his speed occasionally.

And what happened to the RPO last night??? Did we run one RPO? Why not use BY's legs, especially after JW goes down???

Obviously, we need some changes next year and most of this is predicated on better OL play. But assuming we have that, is this about player development? Did we miss on a year of receivers (none of them really stepped up this year)? Or is this more about BOB's lack of creativity?

I'm not smart enough to figure it all out, but it seems we kinda failed in all 3 phases this year with the exception of hitting a home run and getting JW in the portal.

So...where do we go from here? Coaching change...hope this year's receiver recruiting core splashes next year....or go to the transfer portal??? Some of all three???

It's difficult to put as much on BoB last night as earlier in the season because he was playing without some aces and had to bluff his way to fill an inside straight. That doesn't give him full exoneration, but it does at least provide the context so that he's not simply everyone's scapegoat.

The simple fact is that we lost the A/M game LARGELY because of his inept and buffoonish and predictable playcalling. Throw mid to long on first down, run into the line on second, throw deep on third, let's get the defense back on the field. You can give me all the "but we had 522 yards" and "we scored 38 points" that you want, the fact is his playcalling may as well have been sent via text message to the opposing coaching staff before each drive. Indeed, some of what we got inthat game was sheer talent overcoming his "gimme a can of Coors and run that play."

Against LSU, we were 4 of 13 on third downs and had all of 302 yards of offense against a team that averaged giving up 377 yards per game. We had SIX rushing yards. Eighteen feet. An Ivy League running back could trip at the line of scrimmage and stumble that far. (And since we'll get, "But the O line" - which is legit - the fact remains ultimately it all falls onto the OC just like at some point it also all falls on Saban).

And we didn't get extra guys work because we were in the fight of our lives in a bunch of games this year rather than cruising into halftime hoping to see the backups.

However - who's the next guy and is he an upgrade is the bigger question.

 

[PA Tide Fan]

Not trying to be snakry but do you really care what opponents say?

It would totally be out of character for Saban to start doing that after so many years of calling off the dogs when we have the game won. If everyone would suddenly start accusing Saban of becoming classless and trying to embarrass his opponents it might motivate the better teams we play and they are already plenty motivated. And how far would we go with it? Would we send the FG kicker out there with a 30 point lead and 10 seconds left on the clock to try and practice making FG's with time about to expire?

 

[CB4]

If you're saying some backups should start the game against weak opponents to avoid injury to the starters I'm all for that, but if you're saying put them in the game after we have it in the bag and have them run routes that creates a problem. If we start throwing the ball all over the field with a 30 point lead our opponents are going to accuse us of running up the score and I don't think they will accept the "our guys need experience" excuse.

No one seemingly has issues with Oklahoma, tOSU, Clemson, or others putting in backups but continuing to run their offense. Heck Auburn this year was up 40 points over Akron and ran a two minute offense. Not a word was muttered.

If there is a criticism I‘Ve had of CNS over the years it is exactly what others have mentioned; if you put them in, especially on offense, let them run it. Heck I could call plays - run, run, incomplete pass, punt. Paul Tyson never had to worry about injury, unless he sprained hand handing the ball off. Everyone knows what CNS is going to do up 30 with10 minutes left. Run…run…run….Reps for the backup? Yep. Meaningful reps? I don’t know about that.

 

[jthomas666]

It's difficult to put as much on BoB last night as earlier in the season because he was playing without some aces and had to bluff his way to fill an inside straight. That doesn't give him full exoneration, but it does at least provide the context so that he's not simply everyone's scapegoat.

I didn't have major issues w/ BOBs playcalling last night until the last drive, when he called three deeps shots in a row instead of just trying to work the ball down the field. We had all three time outs, so it simply wasn't needed. One deep shot, fine, but then look to move the chains.

 

[CB4]

It's difficult to put as much on BoB last night as earlier in the season because he was playing without some aces and had to bluff his way to fill an inside straight. That doesn't give him full exoneration, but it does at least provide the context so that he's not simply everyone's scapegoat.

The simple fact is that we lost the A/M game LARGELY because of his inept and buffoonish and predictable playcalling. Throw mid to long on first down, run into the line on second, throw deep on third, let's get the defense back on the field. You can give me all the "but we had 522 yards" and "we scored 38 points" that you want, the fact is his playcalling may as well have been sent via text message to the opposing coaching staff before each drive. Indeed, some of what we got inthat game was sheer talent overcoming his "gimme a can of Coors and run that play."

Against LSU, we were 4 of 13 on third downs and had all of 302 yards of offense against a team that averaged giving up 377 yards per game. We had SIX rushing yards. Eighteen feet. An Ivy League running back could trip at the line of scrimmage and stumble that far. (And since we'll get, "But the O line" - which is legit - the fact remains ultimately it all falls onto the OC just like at some point it also all falls on Saban).

And we didn't get extra guys work because we were in the fight of our lives in a bunch of games this year rather than cruising into halftime hoping to see the backups.

However - who's the next guy and is he an upgrade is the bigger question.

If you look at BoB’s play calling it falls right in line with about 70% of what is done on Sundays in the NFL.
Probably great experience for those that will be going to the NFL at some point. Problem is that 90% of college players aren’t going to play on Sunday. The college game IS different for a reason. Reason I think Joe Brady isn’t employed by the Jags any longer. His offense is more suitable for today college game.

BoB needs to go back to the NFL.

 

[bamadwain]

No one seemingly has issues with Oklahoma, tOSU, Clemson, or others putting in backups but continuing to run their offense. Heck Auburn this year was up 40 points over Akron and ran a two minute offense. Not a word was muttered.

If there is a criticism I‘Ve had of CNS over the years it is exactly what others have mentioned; if you put them in, especially on offense, let them run it. Heck I could call plays - run, run, incomplete pass, punt. Paul Tyson never had to worry about injury, unless he sprained hand handing the ball off. Everyone knows what CNS is going to do up 30 with10 minutes left. Run…run…run….Reps for the backup? Yep. Meaningful reps? I don’t know about that.

Saban is not built that way, he's old school doesn't believe in running up the score

 

[Down4ttown]

Rumor has it was Billingsley was the one player holding out on the vaccine which caused some extra steps for Covid protocol

 

[Down4ttown]

Rumor has it was Billingsley was the one player holding out on the vaccine which caused some extra steps for Covid protocol

That was earlier in the year though.

 

[BamaHoops]

BOB taking an NFL job may render this discussion pointless, but if that happens some of this is still applicable.

Since the D did their job last night, let's talk about the biggest mystery of 2022 looking forward: Playcalling and Wide Outs.

First, we know we had elite guys under Sark...probably won't ever see that kind of talent on one team for two years in a row again!

However, what we don't know is how much closer current and recruited players could get to that level with different development and/or different playcalling.

That's the one big difference with Sark! He found simple and easy ways to get his playmakers in space and he'd run it over and over until it was stopped (Remember the little play where Smitty would go in motion and then stop, reverse directions and run a little flair in the flats???). Saw it over and over in the playoffs last year.

BOB seemed to only have way one way to do that: send JW deep OR long developing crossing routes. That seems to be the biggest difference in Sark (and Lane) and BOB. They seemed to develop routes that got people more wide open. It seemed like BY was having to hit tighter windows much of the year with the exception of JW getting past the defense with his speed occasionally.

And what happened to the RPO last night??? Did we run one RPO? Why not use BY's legs, especially after JW goes down???

Obviously, we need some changes next year and most of this is predicated on better OL play. But assuming we have that, is this about player development? Did we miss on a year of receivers (none of them really stepped up this year)? Or is this more about BOB's lack of creativity?

I'm not smart enough to figure it all out, but it seems we kinda failed in all 3 phases this year with the exception of hitting a home run and getting JW in the portal.

So...where do we go from here? Coaching change...hope this year's receiver recruiting core splashes next year....or go to the transfer portal??? Some of all three???

I respect you - but I also have a radical disagreement with your take. Play calling was good - not "Sark good" - but good enough - given the new inexperienced talent. Receivers have been excellent all year - the only dropoff was when we had to sub due to late season injuries.

The biggest issue on offense was OL play. Other than Evan Neal the OL play was mediocre, and at times horrible. Either our recruiting evaluations of OL talent were really bad (not likely) or our player development (coaching) was really bad.

We've had two really good OL coaches in the Saban era - Joe Pendry and Jeff Stoutland. The others - including Marronne - have been "meh". What is worrisome heading into next year is that we have no proven players at O-Tackle. NONE. Historically we would groom a young talent at RT, and move him to LT when AN older LT went to NFL.

Bryce was running for his life last night the entire game. That happened often during the year against lesser opponents, also.

The problem on offense is the OL. Fix that, and everything else on offense falls into place.

 

[CrimsonEyeshade]

I didn't have major issues w/ BOBs playcalling last night until the last drive, when he called three deeps shots in a row instead of just trying to work the ball down the field. We had all three time outs, so it simply wasn't needed. One deep shot, fine, but then look to move the chains.

That easily — likely — could have been Bryce’s doing.

Given that we couldn’t consistently run the ball — God bless, Brian Robinson — and we didn’t have receivers who could break free or a line that could hold its blocks long enough for deeper routes to develop, O’Brien did what he could. We left three touchdowns on the ground with drops or missed throws. As someone said earlier, players need to play. We should have scored well into the 30s.

On the other topic, I’m probably in the minority for saying this but none of the young receivers have shown the elusiveness, speed or hands to compete with SEC defenses. Unlike one of their teammates, however, they did try.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Lots of talk that he isn’t a great team mate. Being at the game I can tell you that he was floating the whole game.

He knew he was entering the portal the next day. Shouldn't have made a difference, of course...

 

[PA Tide Fan]

No one seemingly has issues with Oklahoma, tOSU, Clemson, or others putting in backups but continuing to run their offense. Heck Auburn this year was up 40 points over Akron and ran a two minute offense. Not a word was muttered.

If there is a criticism I‘Ve had of CNS over the years it is exactly what others have mentioned; if you put them in, especially on offense, let them run it. Heck I could call plays - run, run, incomplete pass, punt. Paul Tyson never had to worry about injury, unless he sprained hand handing the ball off. Everyone knows what CNS is going to do up 30 with10 minutes left. Run…run…run….Reps for the backup? Yep. Meaningful reps? I don’t know about that.

Well, in the cases of Oklahoma and Clemson nobody ever really thought Lincoln Riley and Dabo have a lot of class. It was funny when Riley accused Dave Aranda of poor sportsmanship when he called a TO to kick a FG at the end of a game because of a tiebreak situation in the Big 12.

If there's one gripe I have about Saban is that he doesn't let enough backups start the game against weak opponents. That's the time to really let them show what they can do without ruffling feathers of the opponent. Was there really any need to play Bryce Young that much against Mercer, Southern Miss, and New Mexico State? That would have been the chance for Tyson and Milroe to get needed experience actually passing the football. Yes, I know 5 star guys think they should play all the time and those games made Young's stats better in the Heisman run but if he would have gotten hurt it would have been a disaster having our season ruined in a meaningless game and immense criticism would have followed. I'm not just picking on playing time of QB's though. That applies to WR's or any other position on the team.

 

[TidenLA]

I’m not worried about talent at receiver or WR coaching. The guys we brought in last year were actually more highly rated than the year we brought in Jeudy/Smitty/Ruggs. Let that sink in. At face value they were more highly regarded than arguably the great WR recruiting class ever…

Admittedly I am disappointed they weren’t more ready to step up when called upon. However, we need to remember they were facing monumental pressure on that stage. That was also the best secondary that young group has collectively faced. Freshmen receivers who in the last matchup were being covered by nickels and safeties were now facing ace corners. It was just unfortunate Metchie and Jamo were lost and that undoubtedly changed the landscape of our gameplan.

What I am worried about is attrition. Are there guys who weren’t happy with their direct coaching or development, who don’t like their target share, or feel that they are better suited for other systems. If we bring everyone back with a couple of strategic additions, I have no doubt we’ll have a great WR room. If we lose some guys to the portal and have to rely on young replacements or 1-n-dones, then I’ll be more worried.

As far as coaches responsible for said gameplan and scheme structure, I’m less optimistic about.

I hate for BY to have 3 OC’s in 3 years, but it won’t hurt my feelings at all if the NFL comes knocking on BoB’s door, or if he takes Marrone with him. I’m sure they are fine coaches, I just never saw them as fits for the college game. And I saw little this year to convince me that was wrong.

I want BOB and Marone GONE ASAP!! End of story..

 

[BamaMoon]

I respect you - but I also have a radical disagreement with your take. Play calling was good - not "Sark good" - but good enough - given the new inexperienced talent. Receivers have been excellent all year - the only dropoff was when we had to sub due to late season injuries.

The biggest issue on offense was OL play. Other than Evan Neal the OL play was mediocre, and at times horrible. Either our recruiting evaluations of OL talent were really bad (not likely) or our player development (coaching) was really bad.

We've had two really good OL coaches in the Saban era - Joe Pendry and Jeff Stoutland. The others - including Marronne - have been "meh". What is worrisome heading into next year is that we have no proven players at O-Tackle. NONE. Historically we would groom a young talent at RT, and move him to LT when AN older LT went to NFL.

Bryce was running for his life last night the entire game. That happened often during the year against lesser opponents, also.

The problem on offense is the OL. Fix that, and everything else on offense falls into place.

Did you miss that I said this in my post: "Obviously we need some changes next year and most of this is predicated on better OL play."

I agree that's got to change too...and it's connected.

 

[rolltd]

Lots of talk that he isn’t a great team mate. Being at the game I can tell you that he was floating the whole game.

Yeah that's what I saw too. Should have been on the bench

 

[RammerJammer15]

I think it would help to give the back ups playing time in games against weak opponents, especially the skill positions. What is gained by having them stand around to run out the clock? At least they would have the experience of running routes and blocking. One coach felt giving players the opportunity to play made them practice harder.

That’s one thing that helped us in 2017. Tua ran the full offense with Smitty, Ruggs, and Jeudy in blowouts and it paid off in the end.