Thoughts on QB situation after Game 5?

[Cruloc]

not just the crossing routes - in the last two games there were guys open ALL OVER the place. Play and route design has actually been pretty good. Milroe just isn't pulling the trigger. Luckily on a few of them something opened up later, but I worry against better defensive teams that won't work.

Herein lies the problem.....the plays are there, he's just not seeing them.

 

[gtgilbert]

I think with Tua, Mac and Bryce we had QB’s that understood coverages and, based on what they saw could anticipate where the open window in coverage would be. They didn’t necessarily have to “see” the receiver was open.
I think JM isn’t confident in what he is seeing coverage wise enough to “anticipate” and throw to the open spot. He hesitates until he’s sure the receiver is open.

@gtgilbert am I correct in this from your point of view?

Pretty much sums it up. Understanding coverages is a part of it, but I actually think the biggest part is just anticipation - i.e. he has to see it. Even in practice videos throwing against air, he usually waits till a receiver is well out of their break before starting to throw, versus the other guys who'd hit the WR right on the break. Sometimes their throws would be gone and JM would have just gotten his arm pulled back.

It was really clear on one of the long passes to Hale that he hit close to the slideline, and also to a TE across the middle. Both those guys were WIDE open, for a while and had they been hit on time, might have been able to turn up field faster and either score or get more yardage. While at least JM did connect and those were positive plays, there was SO much more potential in how every one else executed.

 

[teamplayer]

Buchner already transferred once so he’d have to sit out a year. Doubt he’ll leave unless he quits football or something

He'll be sitting a year either way.

 

[TiderJack]

No, he had a really good game against a quality opponent. He is for real.

He did have a great game but Mbakwe is a CB and not a QB at Bama.

 

[Tidelines]

He did have a great game but Mbakwe is a CB and not a QB at Bama.

That is right. Athletic skills were apparent no matter what position he will play.

 

[SkullDuckery]

I think with Tua, Mac and Bryce we had QB’s that understood coverages and, based on what they saw could anticipate where the open window in coverage would be. They didn’t necessarily have to “see” the receiver was open.
I think JM isn’t confident in what he is seeing coverage wise enough to “anticipate” and throw to the open spot. He hesitates until he’s sure the receiver is open.

@gtgilbert am I correct in this from your point of view?

To be fair, Tua is probably the best in the game at pre snap reads, Bryce and Mac work the pocket like magicians. Jalen needs to have a three second count and run if his first two reads are covered. He could play 100 years and never be as good as Tua or Bryce at reading the defense.

 

[B1GTide]

To be fair, Tua is probably the best in the game at pre snap reads, Bryce and Mac work the pocket like magicians. Jalen needs to have a three second count and run if his first two reads are covered. He could play 100 years and never be as good as Tua or Bryce at reading the defense.

But at Alabama, if the defense disguised the pre-snap read, Tua absolutely could not read the real defense once the ball was snapped. He was terrible at it, and remained terrible at it until last year. His insane passing accuracy and quick release helped him overcome that.

 

[Cruloc]

But at Alabama, if the defense disguised the pre-snap read, Tua absolutely could not read the real defense once the ball was snapped. He was terrible at it, and remained terrible at it until last year. His insane passing accuracy and quick release helped him overcome that.

Which is why vs Clemson....with them knowing the calls....they knew where Tua was going with the ball before we even snapped.

 

[B1GTide]

Which is why vs Clemson....with them knowing the calls....they knew where Tua was going with the ball before we even snapped.

Yep, they got Alabama's call, disguised the coverage to make it look like they wanted it to look, and then took the play away. Once the play was taken away, Tua was lost.

 

[Joefus]

He'll be sitting a year either way.

I mean yeah exactly. He won’t be able to practice and receive coaching anywhere but here. Nor get a free education. If he wants to play in college he’s not gonna take a year off and then start cold calling schools. Especially with his lack of good tape. Unless he’s about to graduate his only option is to stick it out here.

 

[RollTide_HTTR]

Man, I miss Tua. He's still my favorite QB of all of them

 

[KrAzY3]

Not really… you forget that the wide receiver group revolted after the 2017 aTm game and nearly left because of Hurts. That’s a group that included jeudy, Ruggs, Smith, and Waddle.

Well, I know what you're saying isn't really completely accurate for one reason.

Waddle wasn't on the team then. In fact he was a commit and still came to Alabama even with Tua not being named starter. Not only that, but that class of Ruggs, Smith, and Jeudy (and Najee for the record) all came to Alabama when Hurts was the starter demonstrating the same deficiencies in his passing game.

Let's contrast this to all the great receivers that were recruited to Alabama in the following years, with 3 different Heisman finalists, 3 different first round draft picks at QB over 5 years: Metchie... that's the entire list. Arguably the worst period of WR recruiting since Saban has been here.

So Hurts as the starter got us, Jeudy, Smith, Ruggs and the following year because he was in high school in 2017, Waddle. Then with Tua, Mac, and Young as the starters brought in Metchie and umm, some guys that haven't done anything really.

It wasn't just about recruiting the highest ranked guys out there either, Smith was the #34 WR (according to ESPN), Ruggs was #23 WR these were not 5 stars or what have you (except Jeudy who was #3).

The point, which is pretty easy to see is that it's far more about identifying, recruiting, and developing talent than who is playing the quarterback position and if Hurts had been properly developed things would have been fine there to, he is one of the best quarterbacks in the world after all.

 

[Tidelines]

If Milroe is ever going to win us doubters over, today would be a good place to start.

 

[81usaf92]

Well, I know what you're saying isn't really completely accurate for one reason.

Waddle wasn't on the team then. In fact he was a commit and still came to Alabama even with Tua not being named starter. Not only that, but that class of Ruggs, Smith, and Jeudy (and Najee for the record) all came to Alabama when Hurts was the starter demonstrating the same deficiencies in his passing game.

Let's contrast this to all the great receivers that were recruited to Alabama in the following years, with 3 different Heisman finalists, 3 different first round draft picks at QB over 5 years.

Metchie... that's the entire list. Arguably the worst period of WR recruiting since Saban has been here.

So Hurts as the starter got us, Jeudy, Smith, Ruggs and the following year because he was in high school in 2017, Waddle. Then with Tua, Mac, and Young as the starters brought in Metchie and umm, some guys that haven't done anything really.

It wasn't just about recruiting the highest ranked guys out there either, Smith was the #34 WR according to ESPN), Ruggs was #23 WR these were not 5 stars or what have you (except Jeudy who was #3).

The point, which is pretty easy to see is that it's far more about identifying, recruiting, and developing talent than who is playing the position and if Hurts had been properly developed things would have been fine there to, he is one of the best quarterbacks in the world after all.

My mistake on Waddle. Working nonstop eventually gets to you . Lol

However I think you are putting too much of “well they came anyway” and “we haven’t had a comparable receiving group since”. Well 1) they came because of Tua and 2) no one really has a receiving group like that. The assumption was either Tua would beat out Hurts or Hurts would just move on to another program. Neither happened and after aTm most of the young receivers were revolting. Had Tua not gotten serious consideration the following year then we would hate the transfer portal even more

The Hurts being “properly developed” isn’t accurate either. The guy had two of best offensive minds in the country yet he was completely gun shy until he lost his job. I mean how much more development could Kiffin, Sark, or Daboll do?

I think ultimately I agree numbers in recruiting are not telltale signs of what a receiver is. We have plenty on the roster currently that we felt were going to be aces but they are bench warmers. Right now our biggest recruit at WR won’t be on the team for another two years. However this still ignores the fact that receivers have a tendency to follow quarterbacks that they feel will give them a chance to shine.

 

[gtgilbert]

Well, I know what you're saying isn't really completely accurate for one reason.

Waddle wasn't on the team then. In fact he was a commit and still came to Alabama even with Tua not being named starter. Not only that, but that class of Ruggs, Smith, and Jeudy (and Najee for the record) all came to Alabama when Hurts was the starter demonstrating the same deficiencies in his passing game.

Let's contrast this to all the great receivers that were recruited to Alabama in the following years, with 3 different Heisman finalists, 3 different first round draft picks at QB over 5 years: Metchie... that's the entire list. Arguably the worst period of WR recruiting since Saban has been here.

So Hurts as the starter got us, Jeudy, Smith, Ruggs and the following year because he was in high school in 2017, Waddle. Then with Tua, Mac, and Young as the starters brought in Metchie and umm, some guys that haven't done anything really.

It wasn't just about recruiting the highest ranked guys out there either, Smith was the #34 WR (according to ESPN), Ruggs was #23 WR these were not 5 stars or what have you (except Jeudy who was #3).

The point, which is pretty easy to see is that it's far more about identifying, recruiting, and developing talent than who is playing the quarterback position and if Hurts had been properly developed things would have been fine there to, he is one of the best quarterbacks in the world after all.

no, all those dudes, plus Najee came in because they were coming in with Tua. He was recruiting them himself and was the behind the scenes #1 recruiter in the nation that year.

 

[colbysullivan]

I think Simpson plays if we are in trouble.

FIFY. You had the right words, just the wrong order.

 

[KrAzY3]

However this still ignores the fact that receivers have a tendency to follow quarterbacks that they feel will give them a chance to shine.

One reason I pointed out the inaccuracy was because I'd been told a different version about a different game that was clearly not intended to paint Hurts in a positive light. I'm sure there was some truth to locker room issues, but I doubt we really have a completely accurate picture either.

Anyway, I don't want to redo the Hurts argument because what I said back then still stands pretty much. I don't think he was given a fair chance to succeed given the circumstances, and I think his success ultimately speaks for itself.

That aside, I think you are onto something that is part (but not all) of what I was getting at.

Recruits don't really go to a school to play for the current QB! They have more of a tendency to follow another recruited quarterback, so I'll buy the idea that guys were following Tua, but if Alabama had someone that looked like he was locked into the position for the next three years, does Tua still come?

Meanwhile, once the QB position at Alabama got locked down, both QB and WR recruits kind of dried up a lot which lead to our current situation.

So, I would argue that for a team like Alabama there's actually a bit of an inverse relation to QB play and quality recruiting. If your QB is too good it can actually kind of keep other top recruits away.

That aside, clearly when Kiffin and Sark were identifying and recruiting guys they did a better job than we saw under BoB. I mean we went from an embarrassment of riches to top receiver is a portal guy, to top receiver is a portal guy that doesn't even get 700 yards. It was a huge failure, and it shows that it doesn't necessarily matter who your QB is if your recruiter isn't doing his job well enough.

 

[irvingtontide]

I heard them say on game day that we are tied for the least amount of pass attempts among power 5 teams with Nebraska and Rutgers. I think that sums up our qb situation.

 

[MikeInBama]

My brother is an Auburn fan and thinks we win. Says stats are skewed by A&M playing a horrible Auburn offense.

 

[teamplayer]

I mean yeah exactly. He won’t be able to practice and receive coaching anywhere but here. Nor get a free education. If he wants to play in college he’s not gonna take a year off and then start cold calling schools. Especially with his lack of good tape. Unless he’s about to graduate his only option is to stick it out here.

He can get a scholarship and receive coaching and practice with his new team. He just can't play in a game for a year.