Border thread part II

[92tide]

But we can't pass legislation?

 

[AWRTR]

And @Bamaro wins the Internet today! Most logical statement I've read in the entire thread.

No matter how anyone slices it......what the American people are seeing right now (the OPTICS) is ridiculous.

Close the border temporarily and only one group would be upset. The far left and the white liberal elitists who post on social media every day.

I said upstream somewhere we could use a 6 month moratorium on any asylum grants, to give us time to get things back under control.

In the meantime....the POTUS has currently lost the Hispanic vote to OMB. Just aired on CNN.

The Biden supporters have to be very frustrated right now........

I saw those polls earlier. It will be interesting to see if they are correct. We will know in a few months.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Reporter: “Why are you waiting to take executive action on the border?”
Biden: “Because we need more forces on the border, I don’t have the authority to do that.”

Biden took 94 executive actions in his first 100 days to decimate border security — and has all the authority he needs to reverse course and end the border crisis.

On Biden's inaugural day, he signed executive orders that incentivize illegal immigration:
• Paused Deportations
• Suspended "Remain in Mexico"
• Stopped Border Wall Construction

Since these policy changes, over 8 million people have illegally entered the country, with millions more slipping past border patrol undetected.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764015082173026498

When someone who seems to have a lot of influence makes such bold claims without offering supporting evidence I tend to be skeptical.

If interested in the topic I tend to check out both the source of the claim and the claim itself.

And whoo boy on both.

Elon Musk has been chit-chatting with a QAnon-linked influencer on Twitter: report

Twitter CEO Elon Musk has interacted with the Twitter user KanekoaTheGreat at least 18 times since February.

www.businessinsider.com

Media Matters said it tracked KanekoaTheGreat's online presence and found that they were part of a QAnon influencer group known as We The Media. The Anti-Defamation League also highlights Kanekoa as one of the "extremists and conspiracy theorists" that Twitter has let back onto the platform. KanekoaTheGreat has more than 332,000 followers on Twitter.

Elon Musk has boosted a QAnon influencer at least two dozen times since he took over Twitter and reinstated the account

www.mediamatters.org

The QAnon influencer, known online as “Kanekoa,” is a member of a QAnon influencer collective known as We The Media. Kanekoa is also a member of an online anti-vaccine influencer channel that includes both anti-vaccine and QAnon-supporting figures, and had partnered with election denial organization True the Vote to target an election software company. The account was previously banned on the platform, but was seemingly reinstated in December, while also gaining reach in right-wing circles by being promoted by figures like Steve Bannon, Dan Bongino, Mike Lindell, and Michael Flynn (then-President Donald Trump also amplified the account multiple times on Twitter in December 2020).

QAnon and truethevote and antivaxxers don't have very good track records and he is involved with all of them on some level. Not a good first look in the honesty and integrity and trustworthiness categories.

The claimed 94 executive actions (that presumably all) "decimate" border security is starting on shaky round. Infowars and Breitbart have championed the same claim. They aren't trustworthy either. That in and of itself doesn't make the claim untrue, but certainly increases my skepticism. Not linking the articles. They say what you'd expect. But Infowars linked to the claim on Breitbart, which in turn linked to the Migration Policy Institute as its source. MPI seems on first glance to be a reasonable and research based organization and did not appear to make any outlandish claims so it seems like a good source for the number of EOs.

 

[NationalTitles18]

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-100-days-immigration

Yet as Biden nears 100 days in office on April 30, he has, with little fanfare, notched accomplishments in other areas of immigration policy that rival and in some cases surpass what his predecessors did in the same amount of time. As of this writing, the Biden administration had taken 94 executive actions on immigration, according to a Migration Policy Institute (MPI) count.

Looking into the general categories of these EOs, some do not directly have an effect border entries at all, some are humanitarian in nature such as ending cruel practices like separating families from kids, some rescinded travel and work visa restrictions (which has nothing to do with illegal entries),

More info on some of the policies:

Biden Must Be Bolder on Immigration. The Lives of Millions Depend on It. | ACLU

In his first 100 days, President Biden has sounded many of the right notes on immigration. But it remains to be seen if he will live up to his mandate and bring humanity and fairness to our immigration system.

www.aclu.org

President Biden’s Executive Actions on Immigration

Biden’s administrative actions will reshape the US immigration system and federal agencies after 4 years of aggressive actions to restrict immigration.

cmsny.org

Now, on to the three main claims:

Paused Deportations

True, but deceptive, as Biden deports a higher percentage than Trump.

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-data-show-migrants-were-more-likely-be-released-trump-biden

New Data Show Migrants Were More Likely to Be Released by Trump Than Biden

Suspended "Remain in Mexico"

True, but also deceptive. See last quote below.

Stopped Border Wall Construction

False. Biden did pause construction, but has followed the law in constructing more border wall since he took office.

Biden administration hasn't changed policy on border walls, Mayorkas says

Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas explained that he waived over two dozen federal laws to expedite the construction of border walls because the administration was bound by law to do so.

www.cbsnews.com

During the 2020 campaign, Mr. Biden vowed not to build "another foot" of the border wall. On his first day in office in 2021, he issued an executive order halting border barrier construction. "Like every nation, the United States has a right and a duty to secure its borders and protect its people against threats. But building a massive wall that spans the entire southern border is not a serious policy solution," Mr. Biden wrote in that order.

On Thursday, Mayorkas said the notice on Wednesday had been "taken out of context." It did not, he said, "signify any change in policy whatsoever."

Mayorkas said the administration was legally obligated to use money Congress allocated in 2019 for border barrier construction in south Texas for its intended purpose. "We have repeatedly asked Congress to rescind this money but it has not done so, and we are compelled to follow the law," he said.

It seems to me that quoting a lying nut who misconstrues the facts and treating it as gospel truth is not very helpful in bolstering conversation on the issue.

It's also a bold claim that he can just shut down the border through EO, ignoring whether that's a good idea or not. It seems they are considering it, but there are some legal questions.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/21/politics/biden-considering-executive-action-to-close-southern-border-sources-say/index.html#:~:text=Section%20212(f)%20of%20the,law%20expert%2C%20previously%20told%20CNN

.

The Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel has been reviewing the proposed executive order to determine whether it could sustain legal challenges, a person briefed on the matter said. But some Justice officials have expressed doubts that proposed changes, aimed at trying to address previous court rulings against the Trump-era order, could survive litigation that is sure to follow any move by the Biden administration to use executive action.

In 2018, Trump tried to use 212f, which gives the president broad authority to implement immigration restrictions to restrict border crossings. But ultimately, a federal appeals court ruled that the authority conflicts with asylum law and the 212f authority doesn’t override it.

The case – known as East Bay Sanctuary Covenant v. Trump – served as an example of why the president is limited in his ability to shut down the border. It’s likely to face legal challenges if the White House were to move forward with it.

“President Biden has broad powers under the immigration statute, but they are not unlimited. Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act allows a president to suspend the entry of noncitizens who are ‘detrimental to the interests of the United States,’ but that doesn’t mean he can just shut the border to everyone,” Stephen Yale-Loehr, an immigration law expert, previously told CNN.

Administration officials, facing dwindling border security funds, have also discussed whether declaring a national emergency could shore up funds, two sources said. The White House supplemental request includes $14 billion in border security but remains stalled in Congress.

And while not exactly an EO, this part flies in the face of the claims about decimating border security:

The Biden administration has taken other steps to try to tighten asylum at the US-Mexico border. Last year, the administration released a regulation that largely barred migrants who traveled through other countries on their way to the US southern border from applying for asylum in the United States — marking a departure from decades-long protocol.

I guess in a roundabout way quoting a QAnon nut can increase conversation, so maybe I was wrong on that.

 

[AWRTR]

I appreciate how hard you are all trying. It’s very inspiring.

The problem is you are yelling into nothingness. The population of the the country isn’t buying what you or the administration is selling. It’s basically saying don’t trust your lying eyes just listen to what we are saying. The incredible increase in illegal immigration can’t be denied, and it is happening under Biden’s watch. It’s his baby. You can try and explain it all away but nobody is buying what they are selling.

It’s true that the president gets more credit and more blame than they often deserve but Biden has hurt himself on this one. He made a bad problem worse.

 

[NationalTitles18]

I appreciate how hard you are all trying. It’s very inspiring.

The problem is you are yelling into nothingness. The population of the the country isn’t buying what you or the administration is selling. It’s basically saying don’t trust your lying eyes just listen to what we are saying. The incredible increase in illegal immigration can’t be denied, and it is happening under Biden’s watch. It’s his baby. You can try and explain it all away but nobody is buying what they are selling.

It’s true that the president gets more credit and more blame than they often deserve but Biden has hurt himself on this one. He made a bad problem worse.

No one has claimed that the MAGA and MAGA adjacent are smart or honest.

But does truth count for anything?

Republicans without any doubt also made the problem worse.

The truth does not depend on who buys it.

Can we agree on that independent of what the polls say or MAGA folks claim?

 

[crimsonaudio]

Biden's Job Approval Edges Down to 38%

Biden's overall job rating has slipped to 38%, and his ratings on immigration, the Israel-Hamas situation, foreign affairs and the economy are even lower.

news.gallup.com

Immigration is at the center of the 2024 election for many. Why?

Here’s how Americans feel about the issues of immigration and the border, and whether Biden or Trump would handle it better

abcnews.go.com

 

[AWRTR]

No one has claimed that the MAGA and MAGA adjacent are smart or honest.

But does truth count for anything?

Republicans without any doubt also made the problem worse.

The truth does not depend on who buys it.

Can we agree on that independent of what the polls say or MAGA folks claim?

I agree that both sides have a role to play in this massive problem. They have all made it worse. If you aren't willing to admit Biden's policies put the whole thing into overdrive, then we live in different realities.

I'm fascinated by the MAGA comment. Those aren't the people you should worry about with this issue. They were never going to vote for Trump no matter what. They are going to bash everything Biden does. You should be concerned with the opinion and perception of the middle of the country. Biden has done an awful job defending his positions. No one is buying it. His approval on the border is approaching the high 20's. That's devastating.

You're obsessed with the wrong things. You should be asking what can be done to right the ship now. Blaming Trump and MAGA is a losing proposition. That border bill isn't passing. That's just reality. The next question should be what can we do right now to secure the border and stop the flow as much as possible? Casting blame won't work for Biden. It's his baby.

 

[NationalTitles18]

If you aren't willing to admit Biden's policies put the whole thing into overdrive, then we live in different realities.

Nothing new there.

Many factors played a role, including the end of the pandemic and what is happening in other countries.

You can simplify it to "Biden bad" but there's no nuance or reason in that discussion.

I'm fascinated by the MAGA comment. Those aren't the people you should worry about with this issue.

They and their enablers are pushing the false narrative that keeps getting repeated here by the supposed independents, though.

You're obsessed with the wrong things.

Obsessed? Really?

Your language is constantly demeaning and alludes to anyone disagreeing with you having mental instability. Just stop.

You should be asking what can be done to right the ship now.

Your perception of what I should do has no merit.

I don't get paid by anyone for any of this. I give my opinion. We have a discussion. That's it.

I find talking about the facts more productive than just regurgitating what misinformed people think about the facts, particularly when they don't understand the facts.

Is it important what the perception is?

It is.

But are the facts important?

And do the facts show that this is not all Biden's fault as some claim?

Yep.

It's unfortunate that people don't realize that apparently and what's more unfortunate is that people who should know better don't address or acknowledge that fact.

ETA: and perhaps if people did deal with the facts then the perception among those open to facts might change

 

[crimsonaudio]

President Biden considering executive action on the border, powers once used by Trump

President Joe Biden is considering new executive actions to crack down on migration at the southern border in moves that could anger allies.

www.usatoday.com

 

[AWRTR]

This has become unproductive. I'm just gonna bow out. I'll try again another day.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Ramp down “remain in Mexico” program
Migrants arrested at the US-Mexico border will no longer be enrolled in a program requiring they remain in Mexico as their immigration hearings play out in the US, the Department of Homeland Security said Wednesday.

The “remain in Mexico” program has forced thousands of people to wait in makeshift camps at the border, often in deplorable conditions. While the latest announcement marks a significant change, migrants apprehended at the southern border have largely been turned away under a public health order related to the coronavirus pandemic.

Coronavirus-related border restrictions remain in place, DHS said Wednesday.

Biden condemned the “remain in Mexico” policy during his campaign and is quickly moving to bring it to a halt.

The change in policy doesn’t affect people currently in the program. “All current MPP participants should remain where they are, pending further official information from U.S. government officials,” DHS said.

Revoke Trump’s interior enforcement executive order
Biden revoked Trump’s 2017 executive order that made all undocumented immigrants a priority for arrest by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, saying his administration will “reset the policies and practices for enforcing civil immigration laws to align enforcement with these values and priorities.”
Biden also called on his administration to review agency actions put in place under Trump’s 2017 order and issue revised guidance.

CNN: Biden starts fast on immigration by halting border wall and travel ban while embracing DACA

 

[NationalTitles18]

Interesting discussion.

Description:

Trump’s dehumanizing rhetoric around immigration echoes the worst of history’s authoritarians. Maria Hinojosa, president and founder of Futuro Media, and Dr. Jason Stanley, Yale professor and author of “How Fascism Works,” discuss the consequences of Trump’s description of migrants seeking asylum as an “invasion.”

 

[JDCrimson]

Well if it's all political and it's Biden’s baby and he needs to use executive power that may or may not be legal to resolve the immigration problem. If Im in his position, I don't use my executive power on the border in March and then be tied up in litigation the whole campaign season. I start using my executive power 120 days before the election to try to improve the situation. Especially not right after the Republicans have shot down legislation in 2 back to back attempts that would have given them virtually everything they wanted.

 

[AWRTR]

Well if it's all political and it's Biden’s baby and he needs to use executive power that may or may not be legal to resolve the immigration problem. If Im in his position, I don't use my executive power on the border in March and then be tied up in litigation the whole campaign season. I start using my executive power 120 days before the election to try to improve the situation. Especially not right after the Republicans have shot down legislation in 2 back to back attempts that would have given them virtually everything they wanted.

He won’t really be tied up. The lawyers will handle it. He may get asked a few questions about it at a press conference. DHS and WH lawyers will do the work. He won’t have to testify or be deposed over an executive order.

 

[Bamaro]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1764015082173026498

Maybe he should just do it now and let the courts work it out.

 

[92tide]

Nothing new there.

Many factors played a role, including the end of the pandemic and what is happening in other countries.

You can simplify it to "Biden bad" but there's no nuance or reason in that discussion.



They and their enablers are pushing the false narrative that keeps getting repeated here by the supposed independents, though.



Obsessed? Really?

Your language is constantly demeaning and alludes to anyone disagreeing with you having mental instability. Just stop.



Your perception of what I should do has no merit.

I don't get paid by anyone for any of this. I give my opinion. We have a discussion. That's it.

I find talking about the facts more productive than just regurgitating what misinformed people think about the facts, particularly when they don't understand the facts.

Is it important what the perception is?

It is.

But are the facts important?

And do the facts show that this is not all Biden's fault as some claim?

Yep.

It's unfortunate that people don't realize that apparently and what's more unfortunate is that people who should know better don't address or acknowledge that fact.

ETA: and perhaps if people did deal with the facts then the perception among those open to facts might change

at least they've stopped obsessing about hunter biden's junk 🤷‍♂️

 

[Chukker Veteran]

at least they've stopped obsessing about hunter biden's junk 🤷‍♂️

Now they've moved on to who is locking Biden's boots.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Well if it's all political and it's Biden’s baby and he needs to use executive power that may or may not be legal to resolve the immigration problem. If Im in his position, I don't use my executive power on the border in March and then be tied up in litigation the whole campaign season. I start using my executive power 120 days before the election to try to improve the situation. Especially not right after the Republicans have shot down legislation in 2 back to back attempts that would have given them virtually everything they wanted.

It seems the talking heads/idiots on the net are greatly influencing discussions among people, including here.

Some only want to concentrate on the horserace/polling/perceptions.

That is part of the discussion, but it's also a diversion away from discussion of facts and policies and impacts of policies, etc;...

IOW, if you enjoy the horserace and that's all you want to talk about then OK, but I'm not a talking head. I may be just another idiot on the net.

But this idiot (talking about myself here) would rather talk about facts and policies and other subjects below the surface of the horserace. I want to deal with substance, not how many people are stupid enough to boil it down to blame Biden without having the ability to have a thought beyond that.

And perhaps one person will catch on and use facts and reason instead of following the crowd into the abyss.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

I watched a 15 minute segment with Michael Moore this morning. He's trying to save Biden from Biden by pointing out what he thinks Biden is doing wrong in Israel. He led the vote "undecided" movement in Michigan.
It's painful to watch him twist himself into a pretzel explaining he doesn't want Trump reelected, but then he says enough might be upset over Gaza that they stay at home on voting day and then Trump wins after all and that's the last thing he wants.