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4th and goal decision

Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

In real time I was hoping we should go for it but glad it wasn't my decision. Looking back I'm sure Shula would like to do it over again and go for it also. The biggest thing to me is that in deciding to kick the FG Shula sent a message to his OL, RBs and the UT defense that is hard to miss. He said, "I don't think we can line the ball up on any given play and get one yard." Maybe he's right but I never want to be paralyzed with fear in big games. Most good decisions are made the week of the game. I can only hope Shula anticipated that situation arising and had a preset plan for what to do if it did. I'm not going to come on here and second guess a decision somebody made over 24 hours ago where there is no right answer but taken in context with his career I wasn't surprised to see the FG team run on the field. Below is a portion of Tim Castille's interview about the decision. Please let me know if you disagree w/my understanding of the message.

"If we can't get a yard, then we don't deserve to be in the race in the SEC," Castille said. "If we've got me and Le'Ron in the backfield and we've got our offensive line playing as well as they do and we can't get a yard, that's on us.

"We don't deserve to be playing with these teams if we can't do that. So I kind of put it on us."

Then Castille added, "For (Shula) not to have the confidence to go at their place and get a yard, that's tough."

http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/h...sports/1161509236214410.xml&coll=1&thispage=1
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I was suprised after the Arkansas game that there weren't interviews of the players that were published showing criticism or 2nd guessing of the coach. I posted at the time I wonder at what point Shula starts to lose the team.

I'm sure some of the players think Shula blew the Arkansas game. I'm sure some of them notice the number of carries Johns is getting and here we have a Senior saying that kind of stuff. Definite cause for concern.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

HammerJammer said:
I was suprised after the Arkansas game that there weren't interviews of the players that were published showing criticism or 2nd guessing of the coach. I posted at the time I wonder at what point Shula starts to lose the team.

I'm sure some of the players think Shula blew the Arkansas game. I'm sure some of them notice the number of carries Johns is getting and here we have a Senior saying that kind of stuff. Definite cause for concern.
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Talk about beating a dead horse! How in the world did Shula lose that game? He put us in position to win time after time and we kept missing kicks.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

BAMAHD said:
Talk about beating a dead horse! How in the world did Shula lose that game? He put us in position to win time after time and we kept missing kicks.
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search the board for my previous responses to that question. i wasn't trying to rehash the arkansas game. i'm pointing out that i'm concerned that the players may stop believing in the coaches. i'm not saying that's happening, just concerned that it can.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

The viles got a bigger boost by us kicking the FG than we got from kicking it. They actually won in that scenario. Before some of y'all start calling me crazy, consider that if the situation were reversed and we held them to a FG, the game thread would have been full of posts saying we won that exchange.

Coach Shula is just too timid. I honestly believe that if he were walking down the street and spotted a twenty dollar bill on the sidewalk, he'd circle it 2-3 times before picking it up. Sometimes you just gotta forget about the book and follow your gut to turn a game in your favor, but I don't see him doing that. I think he'll always play it safe.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

To be fair, Castille offset his comments with statements acknowledging Shula's authority to make the decision in the article. I only posted the points that were pertinent to my argument that the team felt Shula didn't believe in them. The majority of Castille's quotes are on page 2 of the link I posted if you want to see what else he had to say.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I was about 15-20 yards away from the play standing on the sidelines (for the halftime show). I would have to agree with the poster above that kicking a field goal actually gave Tennessee a little momentum. When the FG team trotted out to the 1 yard line, there was a collective groan from the Alabama fans. With the momentum we had (with the interception and the fact that we were so close to UT's endzone), our chances of punching it in looked pretty good. Plus, I'd say that at least 90% of the Bama fans at the game were yelling "Go! Go! Go!". I've been a big Shula supporter up to this point in the season (I think Arkansas was more execution than anything), but I really, REALLY didn't like that call. Our offense is never going to get out of the red zone funk if they don't get a little confidence, and that was the perfect opportunity.


Bad call.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I think it was the right decision in that situation all things considered. Obviously CMS didn't have too much faith in our OL in that situation, and I can't say that I blame him. Coming away with no points at all would have been worse in that situation IMO.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

hoopjsn said:
I was about 15-20 yards away from the play standing on the sidelines (for the halftime show). I would have to agree with the poster above that kicking a field goal actually gave Tennessee a little momentum. When the FG team trotted out to the 1 yard line, there was a collective groan from the Alabama fans. With the momentum we had (with the interception and the fact that we were so close to UT's endzone), our chances of punching it in looked pretty good. Plus, I'd say that at least 90% of the Bama fans at the game were yelling "Go! Go! Go!". I've been a big Shula supporter up to this point in the season (I think Arkansas was more execution than anything), but I really, REALLY didn't like that call. Our offense is never going to get out of the red zone funk if they don't get a little confidence, and that was the perfect opportunity.


Bad call.
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I agree and they are never going to get any confidence if he does not show he has faith in them
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I believe coming away with no points would be just as good as coming away with 3. Losing 16 to 10 is not any worse than losing 16 to 13 unless you have money on the game. I didn't think there was any way the defense would keep the Vols from scoring.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

Imo, its a 2-part decision. If you decide to go for it, do you also decide to put JJ in? I dont believe Darby would've gained the yard (almost 2) so I think you would have to go with JJ. For whatever reason, CMS just isn't using JJ near as much as I would.

All that being said, if he had gone for it I think it would've been with Darby and I think we would have failed. Kicking the FG was the right choice.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

It's pretty clear from the players' comments that the decision negated any momentum the 3 points gave us. I worry that lack of confidence in the players will kill the rets of this season.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

BAMAJUICE said:
Kick the ball because we have no confidence at all.
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But how do we get that confidence back if we never give the offense a chance? If we punch the ball in, we have MUCH more momentum going into halftime and if the rest of the game plays out similarly, we are, at the very worst, in an overtime situation. How can we ask our offense to magically become adept at scoring TD's in the red zone if we won't trust them to get ONE yard?
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

bamaman65 said:
I believe coming away with no points would be just as good as coming away with 3. Losing 16 to 10 is not any worse than losing 16 to 13 unless you have money on the game. I didn't think there was any way the defense would keep the Vols from scoring.
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Can't say I agree with this notion, but hey to each his own.

roll2tide said:
Imo, its a 2-part decision. If you decide to go for it, do you also decide to put JJ in? I dont believe Darby would've gained the yard (almost 2) so I think you would have to go with JJ. For whatever reason, CMS just isn't using JJ near as much as I would.

All that being said, if he had gone for it I think it would've been with Darby and I think we would have failed. Kicking the FG was the right choice.
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If we would have gone for it, you can pretty much bet Darby or Johns wouldn't have been in the game, you would have seen the "jumbo package" instead.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

TommyMac said:
The viles got a bigger boost by us kicking the FG than we got from kicking it. They actually won in that scenario. Before some of y'all start calling me crazy, consider that if the situation were reversed and we held them to a FG, the game thread would have been full of posts saying we won that exchange.

Coach Shula is just too timid. I honestly believe that if he were walking down the street and spotted a twenty dollar bill on the sidewalk, he'd circle it 2-3 times before picking it up. Sometimes you just gotta forget about the book and follow your gut to turn a game in your favor, but I don't see him doing that. I think he'll always play it safe.
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I agree you have to turn it your way,and to make it you might win the game the way it was going. GO BAMA:BigA:
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

your on the road and an underdog, your D is playing good ,your on the one and you run a qb sneak for 6 points. what have you got to lose. you dont make it ,the vols have a long row to hoe.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I was not upset with the FG. I was screaming at Simeon to use his blockers to get that int into the endzone. That would have been a momentum swing. When he had TJ running with him he should have been able to get past the QB. I knew when he got tackled by the QB, 3 was all we would get.:conf2: :mad2:

:BigA:
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

Coach Shula made the correct call. This sounds pretty harsh, but in all honesty our team had done nothing at that point in the game to merit Shula's confidence. I'm fairly certain, based on the way our offensive line had been playing and the lack of success we'd had running the ball, that we would not convert a 4th and goal in that situation. You can say that it shows a lack of confidence in our players, etc. But the players have to earn that confidence by making plays. At that point in the game, we didn't look capable of picking up basically two full yards on fourth down against a stacked line of scrimmage. And I'm not trying to bash our players by any means. They went all-out yesterday and played as hard as they are humanly capable of playing. Fourth down and two against a stacked line of scrimmage close to the goal line is a tough, tough play for any team to execute.

Momentum is huge in college football, and particularly in games like this one. You have to think of this in the context of the situation. Going into the half with a lead instead of a tie on the road against the seventh-ranked team in the country is absolutely huge. If we come away with nothing in that situation, it swings the momentum dramatically in Tennessee's favor. Our offensive psyche appears so frail sometimes, I honestly believe that if we had come away with nothing in that situation, we might not have scored another point the entire game. It's easy to look back and say "Well, that was the difference in the game. It adds up. And we really didn't have anything to lose" but that's absolutely not the case. Shula played the percentages, which was the right call.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

Half time momentum is overrated. We had the lead and lost, afor the 3rd time this year.
 
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