4th and goal decision

[GadsdenBamaFan]

Take the 3 points and go to the half with the MO and the lead.It was a long yard.

 

[BayouBama75]

I go for it on 4th. If we were talking about last year, I kick the field goal for three reasons:

1) This isn't last year where I believe we were the favorite and unbeaten going into the game. We came into this game 11 points dogs and I think when the perception is that you'll get beat that badly, you have to take the chance to go up.

2) We weren't playing at BDS. At some point you have to make a statement to take the crowd and momentum away from UT. This could've been a huge turning point in the game whether we got it or not by saying "we're here to man up and beat you."

3) If we don't get it, UT is on their own 1 yard line with a less than impressive running game and a QB that was rattled into throwing 3 picks in the first half. I'd take my chances with that.

I don't mind Shula making the call that he did as it did give us the lead, but I would've done it differently.

I think there was less than a minute to go in the half so pinning them on the 1 yard line isn't as big a deal as they would have just run out the clock.

 

[alatider]

Re: You make the call....

He should have went for it. No doubt about it.

You show NO confidence in your offense when you kick in this situation.

This makes two times in the last 4 years we have lost to Tennessee because we didn't go for it on fourth down when we had the momemtum.

you play to win, you don't kick field goals from inside the 3 when you are an underdog playing away in a hostile environment.

My feelings, exactly.

 

[dougietide]

Touchdown!!!

In the jumbo package, put Cardwell at Center, Antoine Caldwell at left guard along side Andre Smith at left tackle. McClain at fullback and Castille at TB. Don't pull no punches. Show TN that we're about to shove it down their throats on the left side. And score the stinking TD. Like several previous posts, if we don't make it, TN is pinned at their ONE YARD LINE and our guys feel good the CMS had some confidence in their performance. If we score a TD, I believe it would've took the wind outta the sails of the Volunteers and revved up our guys to another energy level for the 2nd half!

Roll Tide!

 

[day-day]

Some People Don't Get It

Pinning Tennessee on the 1 yard line would have meant nothing with so little time left on the clock.

Alabama did not lose this game because of this one play.

 

[BamaBuc]

Re: You make the call....

I mean I know this may not matter but if they stop us on 4th we lose 16-10 but if we score its at least 16-16...i mean 16-10 or 16-13 a loss is a loss

TRUE..........BUT only if all other things played out the same way..........:conf3:
MOmentium coming out in the 2nd half would have been in favor of UT, IF TD HAD FAILED, with them having the ball first!:conf3:

 

[JW4Tide]

If they had not have gotten stopped on 3rd down. they wouldnt be on 4th down. Take the points!!!! Right Call was made.

 

[UAinPHILLY]

Re: Some People Don't Get It

Pinning Tennessee on the 1 yard line would have meant nothing with so little time left on the clock.

Alabama did not lose this game because of this one play.

True, personally I would have preferred going for it, but poor special teams play and our inability to sustain any kind of drive after our td had more to do with the loss, IMO.

 

[trenda]

The odds were better on getting three points than getting a TD. We already had three cracks at it and couldn't get it in. Based on the previous three plays in addition to our inability to get a yard or a score in every crucial situation this year, I would have kicked as well.

With the FG, you go into the locker room with a lead and momentum on the road. If you go for it and don't get it, UT goes into the locker room with momentum, a tie game, and the ball at the start of the half with the crowd completely behind them.

The question really shouldn't be on the fourth down play; but on why we couldn't push the ball into the endzone on the three previous plays.

 

[JTM]

Re: Some People Don't Get It

Alabama did not lose this game because of this one play.

True... It was the 2 dozen other plays on which they couldn't gain much more, if more, than a yard.

 

[JHHALL1]

leasd at halftime is crucial especially on the road with a young team. 4th and goal atthe 1 everyone knows what we are going to do in that situation and we have been successful all year. We dont have an OL and UT knew the run was going to come so we wouldnt have got any yards and no points take the three, mainly bc our OL sucks. but they are going to get better and I assume they'll look like pro's this weekend.

RTR everybody

 

[cbi1972]

leasd at halftime is crucial especially on the road with a young team. 4th and goal atthe 1 everyone knows what we are going to do in that situation and we have been successful all year. We dont have an OL and UT knew the run was going to come so we wouldnt have got any yards and no points take the three, mainly bc our OL sucks. but they are going to get better and I assume they'll look like pro's this weekend.

RTR everybody

Ole Miss "knew" the run was coming on 3rd and 2, and a pass to the fullback won the game.

 

[TRU]

I think that not going for it on 4th and 1 was a perfectly rational decision. In a rational world, you always take the points. What was the alternative? Supposing CMS went for it and they got stuffed. After all, given the way the OL was playing, there was a very good chance that they would have not been able to overpower the Tessessee D and punch it in. So given the situation, CMS reviewed the options and made the rationally correct decision.

But what would CPB have done in exactly the same sitaution? He would have gone for it, of course. And why? Because his team, though perhaps overmatched in talent and size would have been much better prepared. They wolud have been much better conditioned. And most importantly, they would have KNOWN that they were going to make it. There would be no calculation involved. There would have been no quick consideration of the probabilities. Because the probabilities would not apply. It would have been a Bear-coached Bama team and they would have scored the touchdown without any question. Just as if the shoe was on the other foot, and Tennessee was facing 4th and 1 against a CPB defense, there was no way that they could have punched it in (see the famous goal line stand as an example).

And that, in a nutshell, is one difference between a good coach and a great one. An good coach will carefully consider the probabilities and make their decision accordingly. But if you play the probability game, there will be many times when the probabilities turn around and bite you. And although you may win consistently, you will never win them all. The only way to win them all is to build a team that knows that the probabilities do not matter, because for them failure is not a possibility. And that is what the greats do.

 

[cbi1972]

I think that not going for it on 4th and 1 was a perfectly rational decision. In a rational world, you always take the points. What was the alternative? Supposing CMS went for it and they got stuffed. After all, given the way the OL was playing, there was a very good chance that they would have not been able to overpower the Tessessee D and punch it in. So given the situation, CMS reviewed the options and made the rationally correct decision.

But what would CPB have done in exactly the same sitaution? He would have gone for it, of course. And why? Because his team, though perhaps overmatched in talent and size would have been much better prepared. They wolud have been much better conditioned. And most importantly, they would have KNOWN that they were going to make it. There would be no calculation involved. There would have been no quick consideration of the probabilities. Because the probabilities would not apply. It would have been a Bear-coached Bama team and they would have scored the touchdown without any question. Just as if the shoe was on the other foot, and Tennessee was facing 4th and 1 against a CPB defense, there was no way that they could have punched it in (see the famous goal line stand as an example).

And that, in a nutshell, is one difference between a good coach and a great one. An good coach will carefully consider the probabilities and make their decision accordingly. But if you play the probability game, there will be many times when the probabilities turn around and bite you. And although you may win consistently, you will never win them all. The only way to win them all is to build a team that knows that the probabilities do not matter, because for them failure is not a possibility. And that is what the greats do.

Great coaches also have magical abilities attributed to them later on, which are not grounded in reality, create unrealistic expectations, and make things unnecessarily difficult for those that follow them. If Bryant was such a perfect miracle worker you describe, he would have never lost a game, and would never have had any reason to say this after his final season:

Georgia Tech beat us and Mississippi Southern tied us last year, and Texas beat us after we had the game won. We only played about five games the way we were capable of playing and lost one of those.

 

[kayakerjess]

Re: Some People Don't Get It

True, personally I would have preferred going for it, but poor special teams play and our inability to sustain any kind of drive after our td had more to do with the loss, IMO.

True, but could we have won the game with that one play, assuming we go for it and score?:conf3:

What about the "inverse Jumbo", with Castille blocking for LeRon I wanna see that!

 

[JHHALL1]

Ole Miss "knew" the run was coming on 3rd and 2, and a pass to the fullback won the game.

you think our OL could block long enough to throw a pass on the GL

 

[BAMARICH]

But what would CPB have done in exactly the same sitaution? He would have gone for it, of course. And why? Because his team, though perhaps overmatched in talent and size would have been much better prepared. They wolud have been much better conditioned. And most importantly, they would have KNOWN that they were going to make it. There would be no calculation involved. There would have been no quick consideration of the probabilities. Because the probabilities would not apply. It would have been a Bear-coached Bama team and they would have scored the touchdown without any question. Just as if the shoe was on the other foot, and Tennessee was facing 4th and 1 against a CPB defense, there was no way that they could have punched it in (see the famous goal line stand as an example).

TRU... you've got to be kidding yourself if you claim you KNOW what CPB would have done in this situation. And, to build an entire case around that unprovable fact results in... well, I don't think I even have to say it. BTW, CPB did fail to convert some short-yardage situations... and his defensive teams did lose some 4th and short battles.

PS: Thought about deleting the entire post... but decided to leave it up so that others can see how unreasonable that thought process actually is.

 

[BEATtutorsee]

you think our OL could block long enough to throw a pass on the GL

Maybe, maybe not. The real question is do you take that chance in that situation on the road. My answer would be no. It would have been too risky in my estimation considering our situation with the OL. If you can't line up and run the ball from 1 and a half yards out.....well do I really have to finish.

 

[bamanut_aj]

I hate to hear players whining that CMS has no confidence in them to make a long 1 yard gain, but as has already been said, there has been no confidence earned. Work your arses off in practice and gain that trust. Quit whining.

 

[bamadp]

On the road against a top team, take the 3 points and the lead into halftime.
It's easy to make these decisions after the game is over and you know what the final score is. Unfortunately CMS didn't have that luxury. If we had won 6-3 , I doubt there would be many people saying we should have gone for it.
As for what CPB would have done, my guess is (after following Bama football for the better part of 50 years ) he would have taken the points and told the offense they had three chances to score and didn't get it done.


BTW: this is not my first post. It's my first post under this new username.Been here since the days of BOL.:biggrin: