CFN: Florida State and the "Rigged" College Football Playoff: Daily Cavalcade

[uafan4life]

we've had a few seasons that were somewhat close to that. i enjoyed the hell out of them

Joyful murderball...

 

[hfhmilkman]

Irony is. They weren’t the best players. They moved to a league with no defense. So they all thrived.

The NFL scouts would disagree with you. I don't think the Big12 and Big10 play better defense than the Big10. The weather is tougher in November.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I remember feeling a little bad for WVU at the time, but happy that Notre Dame got stiffed.

That was basically my feeling, too.

Tom Osborne basically came out and said, "It should be us and West Virginia meeting." Tom, of course, had zero national titles as the time, had a long-running losing streak to both FSU and Miami - and in all honesty, probably looked at WVA and said, "Finally, a team we can beat."

FSU feels the whole system is rigged now. Funny - I felt that way in 1993 when they:
a) didn't drop lower than #2 when they lost
b) cried about how they deserved a second chance
c) benefited from the media trashing Nebraska
d) somehow had their loss over the Irish turned into a win when BC upset ND

And folks, for those who didn't see the game, the 1994 Orange Bowl had the most rigged outcome feel in the history of college football. Every single questionable officiating decision flipped momentum in favor of the Seminoles - and even then they needed Nebraska to miss a field goal to win.

Did I think West Virginia was a paper tiger? Yes, and it wasn't helped by the fact that five years earlier they'd run the table and then gotten killed by Notre Dame.

But they'd beaten the same Boston College team that Notre Dame couldn't.
They'd beaten Miami.
They'd beaten a Va Tech team that had risen into the rankings.
They'd won the exact same league undefeated that Miami had won undefeated the previous year.

Don Nehlen wasn't wrong when he pointed out that if Miami was the undefeated Big East team, nobody would say a word about their schedule.


The one satisfying outcome for me as a Tide fan?

Listening to the Notre Dame fans crying insanely over a poll injustice.
I have to admit - THAT part of it was fun.

It was the first time in history they'd been messed over by the voters, and they had no idea how to take it. They've never recovered from it, either.

 

[TideEngineer08]

I forgot, Nebraska was undefeated too, weren't they? So it should have been Nebraska and WVU in the Orange Bowl...

 

[hfhmilkman]

In what order do you think that the 4 starting quarterbacks rank?

I will make the assumption that you are not talking about NFL potential but what that player means to the team. I would put Pennix first because Washington's offense is predicated on him. Milroe is 2nd because of his contribution to the run game. Ewers is third. I think he is just a guy who throws the ball to great receivers who are always open. McCarthy is last because UM relies more on the power run and defense.

Long term I believe Milroe and McCarthy are the better NFL prospects. The NFL is an athlete league first. A QB has to be a football player. But they have to be able to make the throws, read defenses, and be leaders. I think it would take them a few years. One of the problems with the NFL is we expect rookies to prosper when the NFL game is so hard. It can take 3-4 years for some QB's to be ready. It is so hard to predict because the success of an NFL QB is not just dependent on arm strength, accuracy, and athleticism, but processing capability.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

FSU feels the whole system is rigged now. Funny - I felt that way in 1993 when they:
a) didn't drop lower than #2 when they lost
b) cried about how they deserved a second chance

Look, football is an emotional game. I try to overlook things that happen in the heat of battle. But "b" above is one of the two moments that flipped my emotions 180 degrees on a program, the other being Bill McCartney's hostile reaction in the immediate aftermath of the Fifth Down debacle. (Note: I've backed off on Colorado and McCartney only because Mac made his comments BEFORE he knew they'd been given an extra down, and he has since explained what was going on in his head when he made them, and it made perfect sense).

Now lest anyone think Florida State - and Matt Frier IN PARTICULAR - weren't a bunch of crybabies after losing to Notre Dame, let's go to the newspapers, because they were the whiniest bunch of entitled underachievers I've ever heard, and it's worse seeing it on ESPN than it sounds reading it. Bear in mind - Frier was LITERALLY crying when he said this, so much so he was mocked by other fanbases as "Matt Crier." He wasn't the only one, he just was the loudest whiner.


Elyria (OH) Chronicle-Telegram, 11/14/93, B6




AP National Story - 11/15/93, this one cited from Fairbanks (AK) Daily News Miner




In short, Florida State, formerly an all-girls school, argues football, well........I'll leave it at that.

 

[hfhmilkman]

To the fans, yes.

As CFB is a multi-billion dollar entertainment product, we need to understand that there are powerful people involved in decision-making that care only about numbers, as numbers translate into dollars. And some of those don't really care about the sport, they see it as an opportunity to make more money - whatever they can do to increase revenue is what they seek. If it's good for the sport, yay, if not, they don't really care.

The people pushing for NFL-like change are those who don't care about the game, which is generally all we fans care about.

I read a great article about the impact of college football on the housing markets of southern college towns. The accusation is big boosters and alum are willing to purchase or rent property just for the football season. These 2nd homes or units turned into seasonal rentals are impacting the price of housing. A winning program of course generates more demand and more money. Thus more is at stake for making the college football playoffs as everyone loves a winner. We as fans can debate who should or should not be in and if a bunch of remote administrators were the right people to make said decision. Those who see dollars are going to demand a more deterministic model.

 

[The Ols]

The NFL scouts would disagree with you. I don't think the Big12 and Big10 play better defense than the Big10. The weather is tougher in November.

I think the Big 10 & the Big 10
are about even…

 

[hfhmilkman]

That's why I said, "This is not a rigged system, except in the sense that it leans in favor of merit, as it should, thus the best programs usually prevail.". I didn't say always prevail.

IMO, the NFL is no more likely to crown the best NFL team than college. Were the NYG better than NE in '08' or '12'? No, but they were the champs. There are other examples.

At least the CFPC evaluates the whole year and considers factors which the NFL does not, such as the fact that is some sports some inequities must be addressed such as dramtically varying SOSs (like 55 vs 5). Frankly, the best team is frequently not crowned in many mature US sports. Somebody gets hot, or conversely, teams get key injuries, or a break occurs and things start snowballing psychologically, etc. FSU was part of formulating the CFP rules, knew them going in and signed off on them. Their sense of disappointment is understandable and any rational person can sympathize, but they don't have a leg to stand on legally or morally.

Your "sympathy" with them, assuming you are sincere or don't consciously or subconsciously resent Alabama, is simply misguided in terms of the "dream" being lost. It's no different today than is was a month ago. Although I can't read your mind, IMO, you, and others, just don't like who benefitted this year. And your resentment is pretty strong because you keep spilling a lot of beans on the beneficiary's msg board, the most unlikely place you are to find sympathy. But I could be wrong, it may be that you have such high regard for the character and analytical abilities of the Alabama fan base, that you have come seeking their support for your egalitarian leanings.

I have put energy into this board because per my first few posts I have been following the changes in college football since 2018. I made predictions on what I thought would happen. My predictions were that the college came would be completely professionalized, the bowl system would collapse, and the conferences as athletic systems would end. The specifics of FSU are only a detail to the bigger symptom. Quit obsessing on FSU.

My question is will college football be popular if there are no conferences, no students playing them, and no bowls. My friends got in food fights with Jim Harbaugh in the quad cafeteria. Are they going to care in the future when the QB of the team is a professional who is remote and invisible to what the university is. This may be called progress. But it may kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Would you be excited about Alabama football because Zack Wilson signs a contract to work on his game? Don't presume that the student eligibility requirement lasts forever. I don't think minor league NFL is that interesting.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I forgot, Nebraska was undefeated too, weren't they? So it should have been Nebraska and WVU in the Orange Bowl...

Yeah, this is what happened. You'll see some nonsense:

NOVEMBER 9 POLL (yeah, they came out on Tuesday back then)
1) FSU, 9-0
2) Notre Dame, 9-0
3) Miami, 7-1 (wins over BC, Colorado, 28-10 loss to FSU)
4) Nebraska, 9-0
5) Ohio St, 8-0-1 (tie on 11/6 with Wisky, 14-14)
6) Tennessee, 7-1-1 (loss to Florida, tie with Alabama)
7) Auburn, 9-0 (win over Florida)
8) Florida, 8-1 (somehow 2 spots below the Vols despite better record and H2H win by 7)
9) WVA, 8-0 (tbf - had not yet played anyone decent though VT would improve)
10) UCLA, 7-2 (lost first 2 games, one to Nebraska, but had beaten 4 ranked teams in next 7)

Notre Dame beats FSU, 31-24

Notes about that game:
- it was the first-ever trip of a show called College Game Day to the campus
- FSU fans like to go the "double digit loss" by Alabama to Texas, ignoring context, while at the same time "we almost beat the Irish"; they trailed the Irish, 24-7, and 31-10 before closing the gap in the final 2:26
- the Irish only threw 18 passes because despite knowing ND was going to run the ball, FSU couldn't stop them (49 rushes for 239 yards)

NOVEMBER 16 POLL
1) Notre Dame, 10-0
2) Florida State, 9-1
3) Nebraska, 10-0
4) Miami, 8-1
5) Ohio State 9-0-1
6) Auburn, 10-0
7) Tennessee, 7-1-1
8) Florida 8-1 (but still with a better record AND win over the Vols?????)
9) WVA 9-0

Comments:
It is perhaps defensible to hold FSU above Nebraska since on the day they lost to the Irish, Nebraska edged a mediocre Kansas team, 21-20, a team FSU had plowed, 42-0, to open the season. But if "they had a mediocre win" was the justification, why did Nebraska move ahead of Miami, who had blasted Pitt, 35-7? The correct answer is they were corrupting the polls to keep Nebraska ready to move into position in case #1 or #2 lost, so they weren't faced with the prospect of one-loss Miami running the table and winning it all. They also needed a buffer near the top in case Auburn beat Alabama. (Those of you thinking the CFP this year did anything this past year with Oregon that hasn't been done innumerable times in the past need to go study polls and results).

Boston College 41 Notre Dame 39
WVA 17 Miami 14
Michigan 28 Ohio St 0
Wisconsin 35 Illinois 10

The part always forgotten? Boston College was ranked #17 going into the Notre Dame game, so it's not like they were a 3-8 mediocrity.

NOVEMBER 23 POLLS
1) Florida St, 10-1
2) Nebraska, 10-0
3) Auburn, 11-0
4) Notre Dame, 10-1
5) WVA, 10-0
6) Tennessee, 8-1-1
7) Florida, 9-1
8) aTm, 9-1
9) Miami, 8-2
10) Wisconsin, 8-1-1

Auburn jumps three spots because they beat #11 Alabama (8-1-1). At this point, all FSU has to do is beat a Florida team with a quarterback controversy caused by the head coach, and Nebraska has to beat Oklahoma. WVA? They only have to BEAT THE TEAM THAT JUST UPSET NOTRE DAME and is now #11.

They do. Undefeated, wins over a team ranked #4 with one loss and #11 with two losses and a win over the Irish? Not good enough.

Losing to the best team you play and cry until the pollsters hear you? Good enough.

 

[The Ols]

I have put energy into this board because per my first few posts I have been following the changes in college football since 2018. I made predictions on what I thought would happen. My predictions were that the college came would be completely professionalized, the bowl system would collapse, and the conferences as athletic systems would end. The specifics of FSU are only a detail to the bigger symptom. Quit obsessing on FSU.

My question is will college football be popular if there are no conferences, no students playing them, and no bowls. My friends got in food fights with Jim Harbaugh in the quad cafeteria. Are they going to care in the future when the QB of the team is a professional who is remote and invisible to what the university is. This may be called progress. But it may kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Would you be excited about Alabama football because Zack Wilson signs a contract to work on his game? Don't presume that the student eligibility requirement lasts forever. I don't think minor league NFL is that interesting.

Some of these new cats are way out there…

 

[hfhmilkman]

What was the problem in 2017? I wonder if there is a common thread - we await your answer. My guess is that you will dance around the truth, but please show us our error.

I may have missed it, but did you tell us who you pull for or are you one of those "college football fans" concerned only with the health of the sport, of course.

The first symptom to me was conference expansion. When the Big10 added Maryland and Rutgers, that was a pure money play. There was no benefit from an athletic competitive perspective or academic perspective. That is where I saw a problem. The 2nd issue that I saw was players opting out of bowl games, making them farces. I am a Michigan fan. In the 2017 bowl game Jabrill Peppers pulled out at game time because of a "hamstring" issue. He was the center of that defense and Dalvin Cook had a few big runs because the backup safety missed the tackle. If that was a NC game, he would never have opted out. The next year multiple players were opting out. So why watch bowl games? That is when I saw the eventual demise of the Roman Empire.

 

[The Ols]

The first symptom to me was conference expansion. When the Big10 added Maryland and Rutgers, that was a pure money play. There was no benefit from an athletic competitive perspective or academic perspective. That is where I saw a problem. The 2nd issue that I saw was players opting out of bowl games, making them farces. I am a Michigan fan. In the 2017 bowl game Jabrill Peppers pulled out at game time because of a "hamstring" issue. He was the center of that defense and Dalvin Cook had a few big runs because the backup safety missed the tackle. If that was a NC game, he would never have opted out. The next year multiple players were opting out. So why watch bowl games? That is when I saw the eventual demise of the Roman Empire.

I, me…yadda yadda…

 

[BigAlinKnoxville]

I have said it for years. Context is the most important thing in college football, and you have to look at ALL the context, not just some of it. The people spewing "FSU IS UNDEFEATED! That's all that matters" simply refuse to look at the entire context. And again, those people just don't understand college football.

This is why I hope Georgia beats them like a red-headed stepchild. If the game is anywhere near close, or if FSU somehow shocks everyone and finds a way to win, we'll never hear the end of it.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

Some of these new cats are way out there…

 

[DzynKingRTR]

The NFL scouts would disagree with you. I don't think the Big12 and Big10 play better defense than the Big10. The weather is tougher in November.

NFL scouts aren't always right. There is a very long list of failed NFL QBs over the years

 

[B1GTide]

NFL scouts aren't always right. There is a very long list of failed NFL QBs over the years

Every year.

 

[RammerJammer14]

I read a great article about the impact of college football on the housing markets of southern college towns. The accusation is big boosters and alum are willing to purchase or rent property just for the football season. These 2nd homes or units turned into seasonal rentals are impacting the price of housing. A winning program of course generates more demand and more money. Thus more is at stake for making the college football playoffs as everyone loves a winner. We as fans can debate who should or should not be in and if a bunch of remote administrators were the right people to make said decision. Those who see dollars are going to demand a more deterministic model.

I will say that the Tuscaloosa housing market is ridiculously inflated for what it is. And yes, a lot of real estate and rental pricing around campus and downtown are driven by wealthy people wanting a place to stay for football games.

At the same time I have to admit that in Tuscaloosa, the university pretty much is what drives the town and the local economy. If the university was somewhere else, Tuscaloosa would probably just be a barge stopping point on the Black Warrior and feeding Nucor Steel

 

[rolltide7854]

At dinner this evening, I Saw on the scroll of the Florida/Michigan basketball game tonight that FSU is exploring conference affiliation options again. Getting passed over for the CFP is driving the decision.
ted an easier schedule
Do these morons not realize that in any other league they are most likely not undefeated?

FSU wanted an easier football schedule, so they joined the ACC instead of the SEC. How did that work out this year

 

[cbi1972]

At the same time I have to admit that in Tuscaloosa, the university pretty much is what drives the town and the local economy. If the university was somewhere else, Tuscaloosa would probably just be a barge stopping point on the Black Warrior and feeding Nucor Steel

It could be a Gadsden, convenient to a river and an Interstate