I still think we got the right guy (Coach DeBoer)

[TideEngineer08]

I think CKD just has a lot to learn about coaching in this kind of an environment. There is nothing like it anywhere else. I think he's capable.

I believe our biggest problem is the lack of humility throughout this program and it's been present for 4 years now. It's nothing new. Here is the blunt truth of the matter. We were no closer to a NC last year than we would have been had we went 8-4. Same story in 2022. We were literally just a couple of plays away in 2021, but that loss to Texas A&M was inexcusable and mostly due to hubris.

So where I'm getting to with this ramble is that we have yet to be humbled. Players have yet to "get it." Perhaps, just perhaps, losing to Vanderbilt, who Alabama should never lose to, is just what the doctor ordered to crush these attitude problems that are obvious and have obviously not been dealt with.

If Coach DeBoer is "buckling down more" maybe he's seeing that as well. I said it earlier this week, but we can talk about schemes all day long. We can talk about players tackling well, staying in their lanes, WRs running routes properly, QBs staring down WRs, etc. But those are all downstream of what I think the real issue is and that's player attitudes in the NIL era. I don't know that I really blame the average player per se. But if guys want to be great, they have to sacrifice, no matter how much they're getting paid.

 

[cdub55]

Tim Smith says coaches demeanor changed after Saturday.
Alabama DL says Kalen DeBoer’s demeanor has changed since loss to Vandy: “He has buckled down more”
Good, I suppose.

In today's landscape of college football where the balance of power has shifted to the players, it is very difficult for a coach to come in and lay down the law Day 1. CKD had a very unique task to try and keep the recruiting class intact, keep current players from transferring, all the while trying to instill the schematic and cultural changes he would be implementing. It is much easier to develop relationships when you first get there, which in turn allows you to be more demanding later down the line. Most of us grew up in programs where the complete opposite happened. We didn't have the option to shop ourselves around to the highest bidder or transfer on a whim. I think you will see the standard continually getting raised the longer he is the coach here.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

 

[Cruloc]

I think CKD just has a lot to learn about coaching in this kind of an environment. There is nothing like it anywhere else. I think he's capable.

I believe our biggest problem is the lack of humility throughout this program and it's been present for 4 years now. It's nothing new. Here is the blunt truth of the matter. We were no closer to a NC last year than we would have been had we went 8-4. Same story in 2022. We were literally just a couple of plays away in 2021, but that loss to Texas A&M was inexcusable and mostly due to hubris.

So where I'm getting to with this ramble is that we have yet to be humbled. Players have yet to "get it." Perhaps, just perhaps, losing to Vanderbilt, who Alabama should never lose to, is just what the doctor ordered to crush these attitude problems that are obvious and have obviously not been dealt with.

If Coach DeBoer is "buckling down more" maybe he's seeing that as well. I said it earlier this week, but we can talk about schemes all day long. We can talk about players tackling well, staying in their lanes, WRs running routes properly, QBs staring down WRs, etc. But those are all downstream of what I think the real issue is and that's player attitudes in the NIL era. I don't know that I really blame the average player per se. But if guys want to be great, they have to sacrifice, no matter how much they're getting paid.

I would imagine the attitudes that pushed Saban to retire have been embedded....so lets hope you are right.

 

[CrimsonNagus]

We scored 35 points on 46 snaps with under an 18 minute TOP. The offense should not be in question at this point.

This I agree with, I'm not worried about the offense right now.

 

[CrimsonTitles]

We scored 35 points on 46 snaps with under an 18 minute TOP. The offense should not be in question at this point.

I agree for the most part, but I'm still concerned about our lack of running with the backs. We could have imposed our will against Vandy, had we pounded the rock. We only ran the ball with the backs on consecutive plays 4 times in the entire game. 2 of those went for a touchdown. I get it, we were playing from behind, so there wasn't a lot of time for that, but this has been a problem for several games now. It seems like we call a run play, and it gets stuffed, so we just move away from it. I just don't understand why we aren't doing it more with our awesome OLine. Washington ran with the backs 300 times last year, so it's not like its something DeBoer doesn't do. I just don't get it. The defense has been on the field way too much this year, and some of it (not all of it), is on the offense.

 

[B1GTide]

Did we even properly prepare for Vandy

No chance.

 

[CrimsonTusk]

We're literally five games into a season with an entirely new staff - maybe give it a minute before we decide who is awesome and who is trash?

Totally agree,... I haven't decided anything. But, I just hope he won't be loyal as Shula was. Hopefully we do make adjustments if needed this week on defense.

 

[crimsonaudio]

Totally agree,... I haven't decided anything. But, I just hope he won't be loyal as Shula was. Hopefully we do make adjustments if needed this week on defense.

As others have said - it wasn't just Shula. Saban kept Gol*ing for five years...

 

[Bamabuzzard]

In today's landscape of college football where the balance of power has shifted to the players, it is very difficult for a coach to come in and lay down the law Day 1. CKD had a very unique task to try and keep the recruiting class intact, keep current players from transferring, all the while trying to instill the schematic and cultural changes he would be implementing. It is much easier to develop relationships when you first get there, which in turn allows you to be more demanding later down the line. Most of us grew up in programs where the complete opposite happened. We didn't have the option to shop ourselves around to the highest bidder or transfer on a whim. I think you will see the standard continually getting raised the longer he is the coach here.

I could see the change in his post game presser and Monday presser. He was not happy.

 

[gtgilbert]

Play style and to some extent alignment, but definitely play style. Saban believes in a true 3-4 defense (2-4-5 and 2-3-6 with two-gapping) and his base defense was this. Of course he had a long yardage package, or on occasion against certain teams would utilize nickel and dime personnel groupings. Another big change is coverage in that Saban believed in pattern matching (Rip/Liz) and for many years it was the gold standard. Offenses have become keen to the rules Saban and now Kirby use and have built in answers to some of that, which we saw Tennessee, TA&M, and a few others give us problems with.

Because Saban had his Jack LB roll down on many plays, it gave us a four man surface and could give off the look that we were running some variant of a 4-3 or 4-2-5. But we definitely are asking our current players to do things that they have not done before to some extent.

sorry, but that's just not true. While Saban was known for the 3-4 and installed it when he arrived, we ran some version of nickel around 90% of the time for the last 10 years so that's really the base defense. As far back as 2010, we ran the 3-4 less than 20% of the time (https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2012/08/alabama_defense_101_nickel_sta.html). I've tracked it for years. We've had seasons where we ran the 3-4 less than 10 total plays the entire year, and most of that was short yardage and goal line type related. Most often the grouping was a 3-3-5 (3dl, 1OLB, 2ILB) but we also had a 2-4-5 (2dl, 2olb, 2ILB) grouping. From either of those, the alignment most often looked like a 4-2-5 (this is what you refer to with walking the JLB down - that was our most used grouping and alignment), but sometimes we'd flex out an OLB or walk him back a bit and then the alignment was 3-3-5. Our next most used grouping and alignment was a 2-4-5 group that aligned as a 4-2-5 as both OLBs walked up and played as edge players.

I think the real change is just the philosophy from what Saban ran as a 2 gap on the front 4 and let the LBs run behind to clean up for the most part, to a 1 gap, attack and penetrate philosophy and, as you mentioned it's a wholesale change in how the DBs and LBs drop into coverage.

 

[Bamabuzzard]

One thing I've noticed is we don't have (and haven't had in years) any dlinemen with quick twitch explosive movements. Going to a one gap system may help some but it doesn't make Dlinemen into a Q Williams or a Duron Payne type of player. UGA is going through this as well. Since they lost Carter on the DL they don't get anywhere near the pressure they did three years ago. In other words, coaching can only go so far, players matter.

 

[Cruloc]

One thing I've noticed is we don't have (and haven't had in years) any dlinemen with quick twitch explosive movements. Going to a one gap system may help some but it doesn't make Dlinemen into a Q Williams or a Duron Payne type of player. UGA is going through this as well. Since they lost Carter on the DL they don't get anywhere near the pressure they did three years ago. In other words, coaching can only go so far, players matter.

Maybe with the DL being asked to be more active instead of just eating up blocks it will be a little easier to recruit the position.

Everything starts on the line....that will never change in football. Get in the backfield and the DBs don't have to cover long. Get in the backfield and the offense is all discombobulated.

Those Chip Kelly Oregon teams that were so potent offensively always had issues with penetrating DL because it blew up everything.

 

[FaninLA]

I would posit that folks that are thinking this was the most painful loss ever weren't sentient on December 31, 1973.

The loss to ND was the most painful, in my lifetime.

 

[B1GTide]

sorry, but that's just not true. While Saban was known for the 3-4 and installed it when he arrived, we ran some version of nickel around 90% of the time for the last 10 years so that's really the base defense. As far back as 2010, we ran the 3-4 less than 20% of the time (https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2012/08/alabama_defense_101_nickel_sta.html). I've tracked it for years. We've had seasons where we ran the 3-4 less than 10 total plays the entire year, and most of that was short yardage and goal line type related. Most often the grouping was a 3-3-5 (3dl, 1OLB, 2ILB) but we also had a 2-4-5 (2dl, 2olb, 2ILB) grouping. From either of those, the alignment most often looked like a 4-2-5 (this is what you refer to with walking the JLB down - that was our most used grouping and alignment), but sometimes we'd flex out an OLB or walk him back a bit and then the alignment was 3-3-5. Our next most used grouping and alignment was a 2-4-5 group that aligned as a 4-2-5 as both OLBs walked up and played as edge players.

I think the real change is just the philosophy from what Saban ran as a 2 gap on the front 4 and let the LBs run behind to clean up for the most part, to a 1 gap, attack and penetrate philosophy and, as you mentioned it's a wholesale change in how the DBs and LBs drop into coverage.

IMO, Wommack's biggest failing is in declaring too early. I have been able to tell where the offense could attack on almost every play this season. If he wants to keep running this, he needs to push more players into the box before the snap. Alabama's athletes can easily drop back into different alignments post snap, or blitz from anywhere if they do a better job of disguising the defense.

What they are doing now is lining up, declaring, and getting beat because the opponent actually studied film.

 

[mlingerfelt31]

For me, Deboer and Womack are hanging on by their fingernails.

Please enter the transfer portal find a new team.

 

[theballguy]

Seriously, who could we have gotten at that time who was better?

No one. Not a single coach.

No way we would have gotten Kirby. I'm pretty sure we didn't try. And honestly, as annoyed as I am at the Vandy loss, I'm glad we got DeBoer. He's a good man and a great coach. He's accomplished a lot.

Anyways, I will view this upcoming game as 50/50. I mean there's a lot of things to like about South Carolina if you're a Gamecock fan. They could win it. And therein lies the fun of the beginning of those 2007/2008/2009 seasons. You just never knew.

Anyways, Roll Tide! Let's get back to work!

 

[22Musso22]

Nah, we won't. Not everyone overreacts emotionally.

I mean, can any one poster whine more than you have for the last week? Every. Single. Post. is a whine...
Goodness.

No crap, my god do we have an award we can give him?

an eeyore avatar? a baby crying avatar? a wine avatar?

YOU DON'T COACH FOR ALABAMA AND LOSE TO VANDERBILT! PERIOD!

 

[RammerJammer14]

I mean he still lost to Vanderbilt, for no good reason. What I see going forward will determine whether I think he is as good as his prior record and worth having. Still an absolutely inexcusable loss. It is hard to put into words how pathetic it was.

 

[crimsonaudio]

YOU DON'T COACH FOR ALABAMA AND LOSE TO VANDERBILT! PERIOD!

He did.

So did Wallace Wade and Frank Thomas.

Get over it.

Kudos for using bbcode there but I think I can safely say most here are tired of your whining.