Questions For Creationists

[Rainbow Tider]

"God's Word clearly proclaims that all men and women share a common ancestry (Genesis). The theory of evolution is contrary to the Word of God and is thus a lie. Christians who believe they can compromise their beliefs about creation to accommodate evolution need to seriously consider the havoc Satan has unleashed on humankind as a result of evolutionary thinking. To believe in evolution is unbiblical and racist. Do these words sound harsh or possibly preposterous? Read what follows carefully!"

bwhaha! nice private message kilvols, i cant imagine why you didnt have the balls to post that publicly.

 

[Rainbow Tider]

hey killvols, notice how the island your posting from keeps getting smaller? pretty soon you,ll have kicked off just about everyone.

 

[bamabake]

my aren't you proud of yourself. I suggest you spend a bit more time as you are painfully unaware of the substance of their writing.
I suppose you are searching for this: "And this is the simple truth—that to live is to feel oneself lost. He who accepts it has already begun to find himself, to be on firm ground. Instinctively, as do the shipwrecked, he will look around for something to which to cling, and that tragic, ruthless glance, absolutely sincere, because it is a question of his salvation, will cause him to bring order to the chaos of his life. These are the only genuine ideas; the ideas of the shipwrecked. All the rest is rhetoric, posturing, farce" or perhaps "Destroy your primitivity, and you will most probably get along well in the world, maybe achieve great success--but Eternity will reject you. Follow up your primitivity, and you will be shipwrecked in temporality, but accepted by Eternity. "

Greatest thinker?? Not hardly. Not even in the top ten of all time nor the top 100. Recognize Joseph Campbell for what he was, an articular, charismatic literary critic and dedicated pantheist/mystic who spent his life dabbling in research, writing books, and giving lecture and interviews supporting his own moral and religious beliefs. Campbell makes two critical mistakes throughout his work: he violates basic rules of logic, and his omits factual evidence which does not fit his pet theories. One of his main faults, one that you parrott, is his tendency to water down the differences between the major world religions. In logic this error is sometimes called the "reductionist fallacy" -- a difference that makes no difference is really no difference at all.

If you want an example of the greatest thinker of any century who's teachings are reflected in art throughout the ages, music, literature, law, governments and who truly changed the face of the earth look to Jesus Christ.

Jesus changed time itself. BC/AD... Great hero to have my friend.

 

[bamabake]

Hello again, everyone. I was going to let this thread go, let it grow warts, green stubbly hair, a giant horn in the middle of its forehead, etc. But then I got a private message from KillVols that sums up, I think, the disconnect we’re having. KV directed me to a website called “BibleBelievers” and included in his message the following excerpt

BBM you know you are pathetic. PM = private. Why ANYONE on this forum would ever be kind enough or think enough of you to send you one in the future is beyond me. In fact extremely remote. It also belies the "friendly" nature of your original post.

 

[bamabake]

bwhaha! nice private message kilvols, i cant imagine why you didnt have the balls to post that publicly.

You are also pathetic. Apparently he was PMed because KV cares about him. Your selfendulgent nature reveals itself with every word you post. I feel sorry for you. You have a cold and mean spirit about you. You know, Jesus died for you too and loved you all the way to the cross to hang there for your sins, and mine. He still does.

 

[bamabake]

hey killvols, notice how the island your posting from keeps getting smaller? pretty soon you,ll have kicked off just about everyone.

Wide is the path to destruction. Jesus said that. I prefer the island TY.


cheers

 

[KillVols]

hey killvols, notice how the island your posting from keeps getting smaller? pretty soon you,ll have kicked off just about everyone.

Nice shot... First I have clearly shown I have the balls to post anything I like... I PM'd him for the very reason Bamabake mentioned. Earlier after challenging his motives, he came back saying I was wrong.. He fooled me in believing he was sincere.

As for the island, it is not getting smaller.. Real Christians are where this message is most important because of what we have been taught over the years... to compromise the bible and fit millions of years in and possibly evolution.. as I once did. The ID crowd is growing in amazing numbers... yes with scientists included. To be kicked off the island one must first be on it.

I certainly have not been debating the issue to change the minds of Blackum and the like. Only a change in their hearts can do that. I enjoy the fact that he can't answer questions and can't come up with reasonable explanations in many cases. I have been looking to be stumped... Also any Christians that are reading and believe the same ole' compromise may see it differently.

 

[stammerman80]

As for the island, it is not getting smaller.. Real Christians are where this message is most important because of what we have been taught over the years... to compromise the bible and fit millions of years in and possibly evolution.. as I once did. The ID crowd is growing in amazing numbers... yes with scientists included. To be kicked off the island one must first be on it.

The Island Is Small But God Is On It With Us. You Rianbow Man Are Not. Because You Cannot Compromise With What The Bible Says. Man Was Created By God…Like Scripture Says. The Earth IsA Disk…Like Scripture Says. The Earth Is The Center Of The Universe…Like Scripture Says. It Is Fixed By God. Not You. You Can Not Pick And Choose What To Believe Out Of The Bible. I Stand With Killvols.

 

[KillVols]

For some reason the link didnt pasted properly... It proves the point so well I think its important to get it right.

http://www.biblebelievers.net/CreationScience/kjcevol1.htm

BTW- nice to have ya here Stammer!

CreationScience is the word in the link with ...

http://www.biblebelievers.net /CreationScience/kjcevol1.htm

 

[blackumbrella]

Blackum, I have a couple of questions that I can not find a response to from your side of the isle. Im sure they exist but was wondering what thay are..

"Evolutionists also claim there was a ‘Stone Age’ of about 100,000 years when between one million and 10 million people lived on Earth. Fossil evidence shows that people buried their dead, often with artefacts—cremation was not practised until relatively recent times (in evolutionary thinking). If there were just one million people alive during that time, with an average generation time of 25 years, they should have buried 4 billion bodies, and many artefacts. If there were 10 million people, it would mean 40 billion bodies buried in the Earth. If the evolutionary timescale were correct, then we would expect the skeletons of the buried bodies to be largely still present after 100,000 years, because many ordinary bones claimed to be much older have been found. However, even if the bodies had disintegrated, lots of artefacts should still be found."

why would we expect the bones to survive 100000 years of wear and tear? in the 2000 years since jesus a whole llot of peopel and animals have lived and died, but we're not walking around on a pile of bones. bones break down like anything else.

"Evolutionists claim that mankind evolved from apes about a million years ago. If the population had grown at just 0.01% per year since then (doubling only every 7,000 years), there could be 1043 people today—that’s a number with 43 zeros after it."

I have seen these statistics on many websites and books and they vary. but the same message is clear. This one is from AIG.

put two goldfish in a bowl, by the end of the year you might have 5 goldfish. in 20 years are you going to have 100 goldfish. no. population's correlated with resources.

 

[blackumbrella]

you guys are a trip. why does someone have to believe in the literality of jesus' nt depiction to be a christian? if you believe in the ideas of freud you're a freudian, why doesn't believing in the ideas of jesus make you a christian? also, please explain how evolution is racist. to say that some early evolutionists were racist is misleading. in the 19th century the majority of all people were racists. and let's not forget what symbol the kkk set fire to in yards just a few decaded ago.

 

[KillVols]

why would we expect the bones to survive 100000 years of wear and tear? in the 2000 years since jesus a whole llot of peopel and animals have lived and died, but we're not walking around on a pile of bones. bones break down like anything else.

put two goldfish in a bowl, by the end of the year you might have 5 goldfish. in 20 years are you going to have 100 goldfish. no. population's correlated with resources.

I was really looking for what the standard evolution response is to these questions.. Your answers are really dull, and dont really address the questions. You obviously didn't read the entire post.

 

[KillVols]

you guys are a trip. why does someone have to believe in the literality of jesus' nt depiction to be a christian? if you believe in the ideas of freud you're a freudian, why doesn't believing in the ideas of jesus make you a christian? also, please explain how evolution is racist. to say that some early evolutionists were racist is misleading. in the 19th century the majority of all people were racists. and let's not forget what symbol the kkk set fire to in yards just a few decaded ago.

Many people call themselves Christians that don't understand what that really means. I would like to be superman but just because I claim to be doesn't make it so... Being a Christian as defined in the earlier post is the only way. Truely. Believing in him is the only way to be a member of the club.. sorry. Are there any Christians out there that disagree? Or only non-Christians that have an opinion?

Racist issue...
You want me to explain something that I already did? What part of my post did you not understand? Also the website I posted gives more information on the subject than anyone could possibly want. Which part do you disagree with? Or maybe you could apply common sense, which you seem to lack a great deal, could tell you where the connection is.

Do you believe that are some races inferior than others? BTW- this is what we call a direct question... just so you know.

Im really not sure why I would even engage in these conversations with you... You just dont get it... you dont even know what being a Christian means... Try reading John 3:16.

You just dont get it...

 

[blackumbrella]

I was really looking for what the standard evolution response is to these questions.. Your answers are really dull, and dont really address the questions. You obviously didn't read the entire post.

they absolutely address the questions. if you want more 'standard evolution responses' you should go to a site about evolution and ask them.

 

[blackumbrella]

Many people call themselves Christians that don't understand what that really means. I would like to be superman but just because I claim to be doesn't make it so... Being a Christian as defined in the earlier post is the only way. Truely. Believing in him is the only way to be a member of the club.. sorry. Are there any Christians out there that disagree? Or only non-Christians that have an opinion?

Racist issue...
You want me to explain something that I already did? What part of my post did you not understand? Also the website I posted gives more information on the subject than anyone could possibly want. Which part do you disagree with? Or maybe you could apply common sense, which you seem to lack a great deal, could tell you where the connection is.

Do you believe that are some races inferior than others? BTW- this is what we call a direct question... just so you know.

Im really not sure why I would even engage in these conversations with you... You just dont get it... you dont even know what being a Christian means... Try reading John 3:16.

You just dont get it...

the paper doesn't say evolution is inherently racist. it says natural selection works through individual differences, and that scientists say there are few significant differences between races, so the scientists are hypocritical. laughable. clearly there are differnces btwn races and clearly those differnces have benefits. no sunscreen, no deet, no medicine, how long is a white boy going to make it in africa? not long. he gets malaria, he gets sunburn blisters that get infected.

 

[KillVols]

Once again you fail to answer a direct question... and you are completly wrong about information.. did you even read it?

Lets debate the issue... I will make some points and you comment on the points made and then make some yourself... then I will go..sound good?

Okay, put the crack pipe down and let's play.

"Klaatsch, a prominent German evolutionist, concluded that human races differ not only because of survival factors, but also for the reason that they polyphyletically evolved from different primates. The blacks came from the gorillas, the whites from the chimpanzees, and the Orientals from the orangutans, and it is for this reason that some races are superior. He concluded27 that "the gorilla and the Neanderthal man" have a close biological affinity to "a large number of the living African blacks "

enter comment here....


"Many of the early evolutionists were outspoken racists, and racial inferiority views were assumed to be proven, and thus were less a subject of debate or concern than one today would assume.34 Haller concludes that:
'science became an instrument which verified the presumptive inferiority of the Negro and rationalized the politics of disenfranchisement and segregation into a social-scientific terminology."

comment..

"As Koster notes about Darwin's view on race, he:
'never considered "the less civilized races" to be authentically human. For all his decent hatred of slavery, his writings reek with all kinds of contempt for "primitive" people. Racism was culturally conditioned into educated Victorians by such "scientific" parlor tricks as Morton's measuring of brainpans with BB shot to prove that Africans and Indians had small brains, and hence, had deficient minds and intellects. Meeting the simple Indians of Tierra del Fuego, Darwin wrote: "I could not have believed how wide was the difference between savage and civilized man; it is greater than between a wild and domesticated animal . . . Viewing such a man, one can hardly make oneself believe that they are fellow creatures and inhabitants of the same world."44
Darwin's belief that some races (such as blacks) were inferior to others became so widely accepted that, as Haller concluded: 'the subject of race inferiority was beyond critical reach in the late nineteenth century.45 Although Darwin opposed all forms of slavery, he did conclude that one of the strongest evidences for evolution was the existence of living 'primitive races' which he believed were evolutionarily between the 'civilized races of man' and the gorilla:"

Comment here.

http://biblebelievers.net/ creationscience/kjcevol1.htm

This is really a silly argument.. we aren't just talking about skin tone.. Intelligence.

Do you believe that one race is inferior to another? Do ya Blackum???

If not than you are a hypocrite. Because your belief system dictates that they are... this website has so much information on the matter for you to just gather your response after reading it tells me you didnt read it or just intend to over look the bulk of the info.

I know that in no way will you respond in a direct answer to the questions and will not engage in a truely thoughtful discussion about it... because it is really so apparent and common sensable that you would look foolish trying to say evolution doesn't fuel racisim.. It simply does...

Okay, now you can start smoking again... enjoy.

 

[Rainbow Tider]

The Island Is Small But God Is On It With Us. You Rianbow Man Are Not. Because You Cannot Compromise With What The Bible Says. Man Was Created By God…Like Scripture Says. The Earth IsA Disk…Like Scripture Says. The Earth Is The Center Of The Universe…Like Scripture Says. It Is Fixed By God. Not You. You Can Not Pick And Choose What To Believe Out Of The Bible. I Stand With Killvols.

BTW- nice to have ya here Stammer!

sweet jesus, somebody hold me. i dreamt the flat earth soceity had stopped by tidefans and that killvols had agreed with them.

 

[Rainbow Tider]

"Klaatsch, a prominent German evolutionist, concluded that human races differ not only because of survival factors, but also for the reason that they polyphyletically evolved from different primates. The blacks came from the gorillas, the whites from the chimpanzees, and the Orientals from the orangutans, and it is for this reason that some races are superior. He concluded27 that "the gorilla and the Neanderthal man" have a close biological affinity to "a large number of the living African blacks ".

ill knock this one off while im here. ready? klaatch was wrong.

the point that you dont see is that racists will use whatever they can to prove their white point ofview. guess you must have missed your history classes else youd know that southerners used mostly the bible to explain why they had enslaved black folks. because the good book said they could. ha! klaatch was laughably wrong, and so were your great great great grandparents.

 

[KillVols]

sweet jesus, somebody hold me. i dreamt the flat earth soceity had stopped by tidefans and that killvols had agreed with them.

Still he seems like a good person that loves the lord... who said he thinks the earth is flat?

 

[blackumbrella]

Once again you fail to answer a direct question... and you are completly wrong about information.. did you even read it?

Lets debate the issue... I will make some points and you comment on the points made and then make some yourself... then I will go..sound good?

Okay, put the crack pipe down and let's play.

i don't imagine i'll need to put it down.

"Klaatsch, a prominent German evolutionist, concluded that human races differ not only because of survival factors, but also for the reason that they polyphyletically evolved from different primates. The blacks came from the gorillas, the whites from the chimpanzees, and the Orientals from the orangutans, and it is for this reason that some races are superior. He concluded27 that "the gorilla and the Neanderthal man" have a close biological affinity to "a large number of the living African blacks "

what's the point? look at bowtie's post. racists, xenophobes, haters, always try to prop up their bs with impressive sounding 'evidence.' what are we debating, anyway? that evolution is inherently racist? does the fact that kkk and others use/d religion to support their agendas of hate mean religion is inherently racist? if so, you win.

"Many of the early evolutionists were outspoken racists, and racial inferiority views were assumed to be proven, and thus were less a subject of debate or concern than one today would assume.34 Haller concludes that:
'science became an instrument which verified the presumptive inferiority of the Negro and rationalized the politics of disenfranchisement and segregation into a social-scientific terminology."

i agree with that statement. my response to the previous quote applies here also.
.
"As Koster notes about Darwin's view on race, he:
'never considered "the less civilized races" to be authentically human. For all his decent hatred of slavery, his writings reek with all kinds of contempt for "primitive" people. Racism was culturally conditioned into educated Victorians by such "scientific" parlor tricks as Morton's measuring of brainpans with BB shot to prove that Africans and Indians had small brains, and hence, had deficient minds and intellects. Meeting the simple Indians of Tierra del Fuego, Darwin wrote: "I could not have believed how wide was the difference between savage and civilized man; it is greater than between a wild and domesticated animal . . . Viewing such a man, one can hardly make oneself believe that they are fellow creatures and inhabitants of the same world."44
Darwin's belief that some races (such as blacks) were inferior to others became so widely accepted that, as Haller concluded: 'the subject of race inferiority was beyond critical reach in the late nineteenth century.45 Although Darwin opposed all forms of slavery, he did conclude that one of the strongest evidences for evolution was the existence of living 'primitive races' which he believed were evolutionarily between the 'civilized races of man' and the gorilla:"
darwin fixation again. who cares? are thomas jefferson's ideas all nullified bc he owned slaves.

This is really a silly argument.. we aren't just talking about skin tone.. Intelligence.

Do you believe that one race is inferior to another? Do ya Blackum???

absolutely. generally speaking, most everyone in the world is inferior to certain scandinavian populations when it comes to brute strength, inferior to certain african populations when it comes to sheer speed and certain other african populations when it comes to distance running, inferior to certain sherpa populations when it comes to high altitude endurance. i'm not convinced there are any cognitive diffences independent of cultural differences, or, for that matter, that anyone even has a satisfactory definition of intelligence, iq, g, or whatever you want. obviously, this kind of operational definition is the first step toward measuring intelligence and mapping that across races, which is also a hard to define concept. a good proportion of cognitive scientists will tell you 'intelligence' is an umbrella term describing not a general faculty, but a number of more specific cognitive proficiencies. but more importantly, what if there is a race difference in 'intelligence'? is an autistic individual 'inferior' (in the general sense in which you seem to use it) to a nobel laureate? people can be inferior or superior in certain areas, but i tend to agree with the general moralistic observation that people are equally precious. you can cite as many evolutionists who were also racists as you like; there are far more racist religious zealots, which brings to mind a certain idiom about stones, houses, and glass.