Select Committee on January 6 Insurrection report...

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JDCrimson

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The media seems to be seizing on the taking the wheel and choking the SS agent. The veracity of this statement is the part that troubles me the most and wondered if it might the statement that if proved untrue might undermine the credibility of the remainder of her testimony.

Don't perceive me as rooting for Trump, because I'm not. But the scene in Lincoln Lawyer where they duped the prosecution into putting the jailhouse snitch on the stand does come to mind.

The President could not ride shotgun in the Beast, so his attempt to take control would not happen in that vehicle. I doubt he would ride shotgun in a SUV in an off the record movement.

Other than this portion of her testimony I would the seniors she was working around have a lot to answer for...
 

Tug Tide

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The President could not ride shotgun in the Beast, so his attempt to take control would not happen in that vehicle. I doubt he would ride shotgun in a SUV in an off the record
I can easily see this flippin psycho cramming himself between the seats from the back and grabbing the shoulder of the SS driver and slobbering all matter of profanity at him. When that didn’t phase him I can completely see him trying to grab the wheel only to have his tiny wittle hands not be big enough to do anything
 
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TIDE-HSV

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The media seems to be seizing on the taking the wheel and choking the SS agent. The veracity of this statement is the part that troubles me the most and wondered if it might the statement that if proved untrue might undermine the credibility of the remainder of her testimony.

Don't perceive me as rooting for Trump, because I'm not. But the scene in Lincoln Lawyer where they duped the prosecution into putting the jailhouse snitch on the stand does come to mind.

The President could not ride shotgun in the Beast, so his attempt to take control would not happen in that vehicle. I doubt he would ride shotgun in a SUV in an off the record movement.

Other than this portion of her testimony I would the seniors she was working around have a lot to answer for...
She was very clear that the story was being told to her second hand, in front of one of the agents there, who may indeed have a credibility problem. She never represented it as truth or anything she knew first hand. If it turns out to be an exaggeration, I don't think it reflects on the rest of her testimony at all...
 

92tide

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She was very clear that the story was being told to her second hand, in front of one of the agents there, who may indeed have a credibility problem. She never represented it as truth or anything she knew first hand. If it turns out to be an exaggeration, I don't think it reflects on the rest of her testimony at all...
if it wasn’t this, they would be fixating on something else to attempt to muddy the waters.
 

TIDE-HSV

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if it wasn’t this, they would be fixating on something else to attempt to muddy the waters.
Anyone who regularly throws plates of food against the wall or jerks the tablecloth from under table settings - and this can easily be verified - is perfectly capable of what she described. I don't believe for a moment that, when they told him they couldn't take him to the capitol, he said "OK, fellows, whatever you say." I bet that ride back to the WH was miserable for them...
 

92tide

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Anyone who regularly throws plates of food against the wall or jerks the tablecloth from under table settings - and this can easily be verified - is perfectly capable of what she described. I don't believe for a moment that, when they told him they couldn't take him to the capitol, he said "OK, fellows, whatever you say." I bet that ride back to the WH was miserable for them...
i will also point out that none of these jack asses that are pushing back on this are doing so under oath
 

selmaborntidefan

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The best thing that could ever happen is for him to be carted off crying to the iron hotel with a jumpsuit the same color as his hair while Hillary, Cohen, and Avenatti chant “Lock him up!”
FIFY

Guys who “act tough” like he does are the biggest wusses around when the going gets tough.
 

twofbyc

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The media seems to be seizing on the taking the wheel and choking the SS agent. The veracity of this statement is the part that troubles me the most and wondered if it might the statement that if proved untrue might undermine the credibility of the remainder of her testimony.

Don't perceive me as rooting for Trump, because I'm not. But the scene in Lincoln Lawyer where they duped the prosecution into putting the jailhouse snitch on the stand does come to mind.

The President could not ride shotgun in the Beast, so his attempt to take control would not happen in that vehicle. I doubt he would ride shotgun in a SUV in an off the record movement.

Other than this portion of her testimony I would the seniors she was working around have a lot to answer for...
Well, her testimony is that is what she was “told”; that’s gonna be, literally, a “he said/she said” scenario. She never said she witnessed it. And it’s been reported the SS detail boss (and some of the others), and the CoS attorney are “Trump guys”; so it would not be realistic to expect them to tell the truth, even under oath.
If the handwriting on the note is proven to be hers, that legitimizes everything else she said, because the Trump attorney who says it’s his sig has spoken in interviews about his actions (words) opposing the “big lie”. If they could corroborate her testimony about Trump’s commentary concerning the metal detectors, Trump will be charged and convicted. If not, unless Garland can pile this mountain of evidence so high it literally drowns all opposition to charges and convictions, he might walk again.
Trumpers know all of this happened, in their hearts; they just don’t view it as criminal.
 
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TIDE-HSV

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Well, her testimony is that is what she was “told”; that’s gonna be, literally, a “he said/she said” scenario. She never said she witnessed it. And it’s been reported the SS detail boss (and some of the others), and the CoS attorney are “Trump guys”; so it would not be realistic to expect them to tell the truth, even under oath.
If the handwriting on the note is proven to be hers, that legitimizes everything else she said, because the Trump attorney who says it’s his sig has spoken in interviews about his actions (words) opposing the “big lie”. If they could corroborate her testimony about Trump’s commentary concerning the metal detectors, Trump will be charged and convicted. If not, unless Garland can pile this mountain of evidence so high it literally drowns all opposition to charges and convictions, he might walk again.
Trumpers know all of this happened, in their hearts; they just don’t view it as criminal.
She was very careful, coached, I'm sure, to delineate what she heard first hand and what she was told. As with John Dean, there never was any possibility of conviction, based on her testimony alone. OTOH, as I said above, much can be corroborated by people who have no reason to take the fifth. It will take somebody else cracking, which will probably happen, when they're confronted with prosecution themselves. I'd bet on Cipollone. I think you overestimate the Trump Gang...
 
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selmaborntidefan

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She was very careful, coached, I'm sure, to delineate what she heard first hand and what she was told. As with John Dean, there never was any possibility of conviction, based on her testimony alone. OTOH, as I said above, much can be corroborated by people who have no reason to take the fifth. It will take somebody else cracking, which will probably happen, when they're confronted with prosecution themselves. I'd bet on Cipollone. I think you overestimate the Trump Gang...
This was my thought, too.

This is from Karl's book "Betrayal":

“Pat, I’m here with the top Republican leaders and they are furious,” Trump said. “They are demanding to know why you haven’t moved on the lawsuits against Pelosi and Schiff. They are really upset. It’s all they want to talk about.”

On one level, this was bizarre. Nobody at lunch had said anything at all about lawsuits or, for that matter, about Pat Cipollone. The idea of suing Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff was something Trump had floated months earlier, but nobody took it seriously. Trump was lying through his teeth. McCarthy, Scalise, and Cheney knew it. Trump knew they knew it. But Trump also knew he could lie with impunity. Nobody in that room would dare to contradict him.

On another level, this was typical behavior in the Trump White House. Trump routinely humiliated senior aides in front of other people. He seemed to especially relish humiliating Cipollone, an earnest, straitlaced lawyer and a devout Catholic who often had to tell Trump things he didn’t want to hear. As counsel, Cipollone had one of the most important jobs in the White House, but he was used to the president browbeating him in front of others. He was also one of a handful of aides willing to tell the president when he was wrong.


SEVERAL CHAPTERS LATER....WITH TRUMP RAGING ABOUT FRAUD

Meadows didn’t say much at this meeting, but Cipollone backed up Barr.

“Mr. President, let the department do its work,” the White House counsel said. “If there’s something to look at, I’m sure they’re going to look at it.

AND A BIT LATER.....

As January 6 approached, Pence continued to see Trump every day. Invariably the subject of the electoral vote counting would come up. Pence would tell the president he believed his role in counting electoral votes was strictly ceremonial, that only Congress, with a majority vote, could reject them. White House Counsel Pat Cipollone told Trump the same thing—over and over again. But Trump disregarded the views of the top lawyer in the White House and ignored Pence’s protestations. He looked at his vice president and he was confident he would do what he had always done: he would be loyal to Trump.

AND.....

In addition to Eastman, Trump had his secretary call another lawyer recently added to the Trump legal team, Mark Martin, and put him on speakerphone. Martin was the dean of Regent University School of Law in Virginia and the former chief justice of the North Carolina Supreme Court. He had been asked to offer his legal advice to the president by fellow North Carolinian Mark Meadows, and Trump had recently taken to describing him as “my Constitutional expert.” Noticeably absent at this meeting was the man whose job it was to provide the president with legal advice. Cipollone had told Trump point-blank that the vice president didn’t have the power to reject electoral votes. Trump excluded him from the meeting.

AFTER THE CAPITOL BREACH....

One of the few people around Trump while all this was going on was White House Counsel Pat Cipollone. According to a source close to Cipollone, he came close to resigning but stayed on because he was worried things could get even worse if he left. Cipollone tried in vain to get Trump to publicly condemn the riot, telling him that if he didn’t, he risked being removed from office—either through impeachment or by a vote of his cabinet declaring him mentally unfit under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.


=====

I've thought since reading that book late last year that Cipollone would wind up being the John Dean in this situation if such ever occurred.
 

TIDE-HSV

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This was my thought, too.

This is from Karl's book "Betrayal":

“Pat, I’m here with the top Republican leaders and they are furious,” Trump said. “They are demanding to know why you haven’t moved on the lawsuits against Pelosi and Schiff. They are really upset. It’s all they want to talk about.”

On one level, this was bizarre. Nobody at lunch had said anything at all about lawsuits or, for that matter, about Pat Cipollone. The idea of suing Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi and Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff was something Trump had floated months earlier, but nobody took it seriously. Trump was lying through his teeth. McCarthy, Scalise, and Cheney knew it. Trump knew they knew it. But Trump also knew he could lie with impunity. Nobody in that room would dare to contradict him.

On another level, this was typical behavior in the Trump White House. Trump routinely humiliated senior aides in front of other people. He seemed to especially relish humiliating Cipollone, an earnest, straitlaced lawyer and a devout Catholic who often had to tell Trump things he didn’t want to hear. As counsel, Cipollone had one of the most important jobs in the White House, but he was used to the president browbeating him in front of others. He was also one of a handful of aides willing to tell the president when he was wrong.


SEVERAL CHAPTERS LATER....WITH TRUMP RAGING ABOUT FRAUD

Meadows didn’t say much at this meeting, but Cipollone backed up Barr.

“Mr. President, let the department do its work,” the White House counsel said. “If there’s something to look at, I’m sure they’re going to look at it.

AND A BIT LATER.....

As January 6 approached, Pence continued to see Trump every day. Invariably the subject of the electoral vote counting would come up. Pence would tell the president he believed his role in counting electoral votes was strictly ceremonial, that only Congress, with a majority vote, could reject them. White House Counsel Pat Cipollone told Trump the same thing—over and over again. But Trump disregarded the views of the top lawyer in the White House and ignored Pence’s protestations. He looked at his vice president and he was confident he would do what he had always done: he would be loyal to Trump.

AND.....

In addition to Eastman, Trump had his secretary call another lawyer recently added to the Trump legal team, Mark Martin, and put him on speakerphone. Martin was the dean of Regent University School of Law in Virginia and the former chief justice of the North Carolina Supreme Court. He had been asked to offer his legal advice to the president by fellow North Carolinian Mark Meadows, and Trump had recently taken to describing him as “my Constitutional expert.” Noticeably absent at this meeting was the man whose job it was to provide the president with legal advice. Cipollone had told Trump point-blank that the vice president didn’t have the power to reject electoral votes. Trump excluded him from the meeting.

AFTER THE CAPITOL BREACH....

One of the few people around Trump while all this was going on was White House Counsel Pat Cipollone. According to a source close to Cipollone, he came close to resigning but stayed on because he was worried things could get even worse if he left. Cipollone tried in vain to get Trump to publicly condemn the riot, telling him that if he didn’t, he risked being removed from office—either through impeachment or by a vote of his cabinet declaring him mentally unfit under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment.


=====

I've thought since reading that book late last year that Cipollone would wind up being the John Dean in this situation if such ever occurred.
Very good, and this is Cipollone's chance to extract himself as a member of the Trump/Meadows conspiracy and maybe even save his professional career. There are others who can be offered immunity, both by the committee and the DOJ, who can flesh out and corroborate. I think the dam just broke...
 

selmaborntidefan

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Cipollone also was desperately trying to get Trump to NOT listen to Mike Flynn and Sidney Powell. When he pointed out Trump did not have the authority to appoint Powell as "special counsel", lawyer Patrick Byrne went Full Kool-Aid by telling Trump that Cipollone was lying through his teeth and wanted him to lose. When Trump continued to toy with the idea - I repeat - of making Powell special counsel, Cipollone again told him that he'd resign and Trump didn't have such authority.

Remember - at the time, Bill Barr was still the AG. It was three days after this meeting when Barr held that last press conference and said he had no reason to appoint a special counsel, which is a lot of why he was canned/quit/whatever.
 
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