Starters for Bowl Game?

KrAzY3

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What exactly are you expecting us to do? It's not like we have been overly successful running the ball with the backs this season anyways.
I've been saying the same basic thing since 2016, which is that you need to develop a strong running game. A strong running game doesn't just randomly happen, you have to build it up over time, the passing game is more skill based, you can get away with under-utilizing it and unleashing it later in the season. You can't do that as easily with the running (back) game. You have to work at it and keep working at and if you do it will likely bear fruit. It's not going to look good if you keep under-nourishing it though.

Do you think it's coincidence that Alabama hasn't been overly successful running the ball once Alabama started relying more heavily on quarterback play? They got away from a balanced offense and the end result was an unreliable running game. It wasn't lack of talent, it was lack of utilization, you don't build muscles you don't use. Haynes (who is leaving...) averaged 5.7 per rush. The only thing wrong with that is he didn't get more carries.

From 2008-2015 Alabama had 4 national championships and failed to have a thousand yard rusher only twice. Both of those seasons they had multiple losses.

From 2016-2024 they've failed to have a thousand yard running back 5 times. I understand it might be easy to conclude they just didn't have the right backs those years, but in three of those seasons they had running backs who are top 5 rushers in the NFL right now.

Tua was was/is flat-out injury prone. He was the antithesis of Jalen Hurts who has always been able to avoid major hits. Some players are just like that, but it has nothing to do with offensive philosophy/scheme.
Which is why you put guys like that in bubble wrap. I said this before he got hurt in the Miss. State game by the way, I made this exact same point. So I'm not changing my tune, it was obvious then and it's obvious now. It absolutely has to do with the playcalling.

Alabama was up something like 35-3 with Tua out there running a pass play that ended up with him scrambling on the sideline. Nothing can be done right, can't help it... except you can because pretty much everyone knows that if the QB hands the ball off the odds of him getting hurt go down to near zero.

He had Brian Robinson and Najee Harris and a huge lead yet he's out there throwing the ball around despite not being 100% (obviously you still need to pass sometimes, but if for instance you reduce passes by 20% you also reduce chance of injury by 20% and develop a better running game as well). It did not need to happen, but that team relied on QB play far too much even when it wasn't necessary.
 
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BamaBoySince89

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Do you think it's coincidence that Alabama hasn't been overly successful running the ball once Alabama started relying more heavily on quarterback play? They got away from a balanced offense and the end result was an unreliable running game. It wasn't lack of talent, it was lack of utilization, you don't build muscles you don't use. Haynes (who is leaving...) averaged 5.7 per rush. The only thing wrong with that is he didn't get more carries.
I was ready to dismiss DeBoer as somebody who utilizes a RB but his track record proves otherwise:

2023 - Dillion Johnson 233 att/1195yds/16 td/5.1 yds per att
2022 - Wayne Taulapappa 140 att/887yds/11 td/6.3 yds per att
2021 - Mirrors 2024, except your leading rusher is the QB
Screenshot 2024-12-16 at 8.56.17 PM.png

2024
Screenshot 2024-12-16 at 8.56.52 PM.png

It depends on the QB play and since the only strength of the QB was his running, boom.
 
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81usaf92

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I've been saying the same basic thing since 2016, which is that you need to develop a strong running game. A strong running game doesn't just randomly happen, you have to build it up over time, the passing game is more skill based, you can get away with under-utilizing it and unleashing it later in the season. You can't do that as easily with the running (back) game. You have to work at it and keep working at and if you do it will likely bear fruit. It's not going to look good if you keep under-nourishing it though.

Do you think it's coincidence that Alabama hasn't been overly successful running the ball once Alabama started relying more heavily on quarterback play? They got away from a balanced offense and the end result was an unreliable running game. It wasn't lack of talent, it was lack of utilization, you don't build muscles you don't use. Haynes (who is leaving...) averaged 5.7 per rush. The only thing wrong with that is he didn't get more carries.

From 2008-2015 Alabama had 4 national championships and failed to have a thousand yard rusher only twice. Both of those seasons they had multiple losses.

From 2016-2024 they've failed to have a thousand yard running back 5 times. I understand it might be easy to conclude they just didn't have the right backs those years, but in three of those seasons they had running backs who are top 5 rushers in the NFL right now.
Yet we lost a 3 peat because Doug Nussmeier took the ball out of AJ Mccarron’s hands in 2013 and put it in TJ’s legs….

Let me ask you this… who was the better coach? Stallings or Spurrier? Because you are making the same argument against the modern offense and modern defenses that Stallings apologists have been making since 92. At some point you have to accept you have to play more to the personnel you got and not to a style. 2023 Michigans are very rare. Heck… in 2015 we had the best running back in a generation but we needed Coker to win the game vs Clemson with his arm.
 

KrAzY3

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in 2015 we had the best running back in a generation but we needed Coker to win the game vs Clemson with his arm.
I think that was in a lot of the ways the gold standard in terms of how an offense should operate, and it was in part due to sheer luck. Coker is injured and somewhat limited, and Alabama turns to Henry to facilitate the offense. Henry was the leading rusher from the year before, but due to over-reliance on Sims, Henry didn't even have a thousand yards.

He went from 172 carries to 395, which even I think was probably too much. The end result though was a rushing attack that other teams had to respect and defend against, and when Alabama needed to open up the passing game it worked wonderfully. I am not trying to say don't pass the ball, I'm saying establish the run, there's a difference.

I was looking at some recent seasons and at first glance it almost looked like some of these teams had balanced offenses. Then once I factored in scrambles and sacks (which count as rush attempts), I realized how unbalanced a lot of these offenses had really become. They were leaving the ball in the quarterback's hands by a fairly wide margin. This without even taking into account the fact that Saban liked to run the ball heavily with the backups in, so it had become habitual for a lot of these Alabama offenses to over-rely on the pass when the starters were in.

Another example would be 2017, which by the way was the lowest total yards a running back had in a championship season (Harris with only 1,000 despite averaging 7.4 per carry). Even I had to admit Jalen wasn't throwing enough (to reiterate I want balanced offenses) but he was also rushing too much (lead the team in rushing attempts). This resulted in the QB taking the ball out of the hand of other play makers, both receivers and running backs.

When he came out of the game (something I called for as well as a lot of posters here), Tua took over and I was alright with that, why? Because the team was down, they had to do something to dig their way out and relying on Tua was absolutely the right call in that situation.

Two things to note though. First is that despite kind of sandbagging on the passing game the entire year, once Tua was in it still worked just fine. There's nothing that says you have to throw the ball in a blowout up by 30 in order to keep the passing game working (although if you haven't been passing at all like Jalen did sometimes may be that wouldn't have been a bad idea). The second is that I am 100% for opening up and airing it out if that's what it takes to win. That's not at all what I have a problem with. I only have a problem with over-reliance on the quarterback when it's not necessary.

What I am saying though is that the running (back) game should be the foundation of the offense. That's what you build off of, and I think even those two examples show that you can open up the passing game much more easily if you have a dominant ground game than the other way around. If the QB is the foundation of the offense, it's a far less stable structure. This is evidenced by the simple fact that it's easier to cultivate and use multiple running backs than it is to cultivate and use multiple quarterbacks. With the QB as the foundation of the offense, if he's unhealthy or has a bad game then the entire offense is in jeopardy.

Edit: To specifically address your question, I think there's a middle ground that should be sought out. I think you start with the more conservative approach but you also insure you have the capability to open things up when needs be. If you skip the first step though, I think you're stuck only able to win one way.
 
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bamaslammer

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So, who is starting the bowl game?
Whoever is still in the building when we begin bowl prep. Not sure if we will get opt outs from the guys going pro. I don't know of any of them that have sold their case for the first round so they could help themselves with a good game

I'm guessing on offense
QB - Milro
RB - Miller, Young
WR - Williams, Bernard, Scott
TE - Same as season
OL - Same as season

Defense
Safties Moor, Hubbard and Red Morgin
CB Brown, Jackson, D Jones
LB campbell, Jefferson, Russaw
DL Same as season

In some cases any injury would result in a freakin walkon getting the chance of a lifetime. Hope their parents attend.
 

Ole Man Dan

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Read Buzzards post right above yours. The only thing to add to what he said is that it was multiple sources direct from the locker room.
It's highly unlikely that several guys in the locker room would have made up the same lie about Milroe. In my opinion, they said what they believed to be the truth. True or not we had a fractured locker room.
 
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Ole Man Dan

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In all fairness, this is the last game of the 2024 season and the cluster crap clown show CKD has had to manage wrt lockerroom dynamics has been exhausting I'm sure. It's one game and rather than cause a massive uproar in the media and bench Milroe, the best bet is to let the kid play, get the team their 15 practices and a bowl game, and put a bow on the 2024 season.
Probably the RIGHT thing to do, but I'm fed up with Milroe.
 

bamaslammer

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Tyler Booker had a meeting that Monday also and he has been dead silent also.
Neither one got the " Let's get dressed up for the first-round pick show" news they were hoping for.
There was a 10 or 12 year span where just starting multiple years at Alabama was an automatic draft status but Alabama's talent pool has faded. That might be somewhat due to Saban getting older but honestly I think the bulk of the difference are changes in rules have made it impossible to stockpile rosters like we once had. To that end these NFL guys, their jobs depend on being right so if you're not winning on film that script A isn't going to help you.
 
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Rockettman

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I was hoping that Milroe would opt out of the bowl game because we desperately need to see Ty play a full game against a decent opponent so we will know what we have in him. In my opinion that would tell us if we need to grab a veteran QB out of the portal or not.

We also probably need to see Mbakwe play some receiver because we are down to only 4 healthy ones that I'm aware of (Williams, Bernard, Scott, and Jaren Hamilton).
 

bamaslammer

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I was hoping that Milroe would opt out of the bowl game because we desperately need to see Ty play a full game against a decent opponent so we will know what we have in him. In my opinion that would tell us if we need to grab a veteran QB out of the portal or not.
That's easier said that done. If we grab 1 out of the portal with the intent to start him in 2025 Ty would leave for sure, probably Mac as well. If we can't develop our own QB's I think the coaches need to be replaced, not the QB's. Additionally I think we have talent at QB to win. Our problems offensively are more in the offensive line and the lack of a game breaker at RB. Plus the passing attack this year was like early Gene Stallings bad, but without the run game and pure meanness to offset it. Not sure if thats the OC or Milro or both.
 

mlh

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I was hoping that Milroe would opt out of the bowl game because we desperately need to see Ty play a full game against a decent opponent so we will know what we have in him. In my opinion that would tell us if we need to grab a veteran QB out of the portal or not.

We also probably need to see Mbakwe play some receiver because we are down to only 4 healthy ones that I'm aware of (Williams, Bernard, Scott, and Jaren Hamilton).
I expect to see Mbakwe play some at WR - not a lot but some. There's no reason not to give him a chance to show what he can do.

I do not expect to see Ty play unless Milroe gets hurt or it's a blowout. I don't think either is likely.

We'll have to wait until next fall to see how Ty does as our QB1 but I'm sure CKD knows what we have in Ty. If he goes out and brings in an experienced, highly-touted QB from the portal, that will give us a good indication of his confidence in Ty.
 

UAH

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I expect to see Mbakwe play some at WR - not a lot but some. There's no reason not to give him a chance to show what he can do.

I do not expect to see Ty play unless Milroe gets hurt or it's a blowout. I don't think either is likely.

We'll have to wait until next fall to see how Ty does as our QB1 but I'm sure CKD knows what we have in Ty. If he goes out and brings in an experienced, highly-touted QB from the portal, that will give us a good indication of his confidence in Ty.
In this case it is likely that TY would be gone and Sayin proved that there are not any guarantees of future QB's actually joining Alabama. We tend to blame the greed of the players entering the portal but how much commitment have we seen from coaches over the years. Dozens of cases of head coaches and assistants leaving for more dollars.
 

gman4tide

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I expect to see Mbakwe play some at WR - not a lot but some. There's no reason not to give him a chance to show what he can do.

I do not expect to see Ty play unless Milroe gets hurt or it's a blowout. I don't think either is likely.

We'll have to wait until next fall to see how Ty does as our QB1 but I'm sure CKD knows what we have in Ty. If he goes out and brings in an experienced, highly-touted QB from the portal, that will give us a good indication of his confidence in Ty.
So Mbakwe plays "limited" snaps at wr...with 2 and 5...who got all the targets from milroe. That don't make any sense. Odom, Law and Prentice weren't 1*/walkon practice guys and they didn't get any targets. What makes one think nilroe would target Mbakwe? This isn't "targeted" at you mlh. I just thought the question needed asked.
 

mlh

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So Mbakwe plays "limited" snaps at wr...with 2 and 5...who got all the targets from milroe. That don't make any sense. Odom, Law and Prentice weren't 1*/walkon practice guys and they didn't get any targets. What makes one think nilroe would target Mbakwe? This isn't "targeted" at you mlh. I just thought the question needed asked.
You make a very good point. Maybe Mbakwe gets 1 or 2 thrown his way just for the novelty of it? It will be interesting to see what happens.
 

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