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Turf at B-DS

TIDE-HSV said:
Everybody's experience with Astro Turf was so bad, I think the new turf has a mountain to climb to get anyone to consider it...
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Field Turf is good stuff when it's first installed. The problem is, it doesn't hold up well to intense traffic for long periods. A newly installed Field Turf system is excellent in its first year; good in its second and it's downhill from there.

Texture and friction-wise, it's as good as a healthy stand of TifDwarf in its first year. But unlike live grass, it doesn't replace itself and it's just too expensive to redo the field every three years or so. It basically wears like real grass, but since it's dead...

Woerner Turf experimented a few years ago with a Bermuda cultivar that could be grown indoors. Unfortunately, Katrina interrupted that experiment.
 
To elaborate about the creek and its impact on drainage, the stadium guy said that, in extended periods of heavy rainfall - i.e. last year and this, the water table under the field rises to the point where there is simply no drainage at all. We have a similar situation here in HSV on the south side of Monte Sano, where Hampton Cove, an upscale neighborhood lies. It could never be developed on septic tanks because, when a percolation hole was dug, rather than the water draining away, to be timed, water rose in the hole instead. As I said, consideration has been given to diverting the underground aquifer under BDS, but, where it would have to be intercepted, buildings are inconveniently sitting on it. IOW, this is not a simple problem to be solved by simple means. Over the years, I've finally become convinced of this...

Edit: Hampton Cove was developed when sewer was finally available. This year I've had 8' of rain fall in my 3 acre yard. Every drop ended up in Hampton Cove, and they've had flooding the last couple of years. Man doesn't always prevail against nature...
 
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TIDE-HSV said:
To elaborate about the creek and its impact on drainage, the stadium guy said that, in extended periods of heavy rainfall - i.e. last year and this, the water table under the field rises to the point where there is simply no drainage at all. We have a similar situation here in HSV on the south side of Monte Sano, where Hampton Cove, an upscale neighborhood lies. It could never be developed on septic tanks because, when a percolation hole was dug, rather than the water draining away, to be timed, water rose in the hole instead. As I said, consideration has been given to diverting the underground aquifer under BDS, but, where it would have to be intercepted, buildings are inconveniently sitting on it. IOW, this is not a simple problem to be solved by simple means. Over the years, I've finally become convinced of this...

Edit: Hampton Cove was developed when sewer was finally available. This year I've had 8' of rain fall in my 3 acre yard. Every drop ended up in Hampton Cove, and they've had flooding the last couple of years. Man doesn't always prevail against nature...
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If this were the situation I faced, I'd elevate the whole field a few inches, and add to the substrate. You'd still have some issues during very high rainfall events, but the typical afternoon thunderstorm wouldn't leave water standing.

Again, I've never had the pleasure of inspecting the turf at BDS. I'd love to, someday; and offer my suggestions on making it better.
 
As it's been explained to me, the passing t-storm is not the problem. The last two years (ironically following years of drought) have seen so much steady rain through the whole year that the aquifer has swollen to the point to where it's always just under the field surface. The whole field is literally sitting on a river. They've spent a lot of time and lot of $$$ on it. If a few inches of topsoil sitting on top of an underground river would solve it, they'd've done it. It's a major problem in even thinking about dropping the field (aside from the LOS problems). They can never even think about it until something is done about the aquifer (diversion)...
 
You are exactly right. When I was walking the field in August 2008, the surface was so compacted it was hard as a rock and the grass was badly burned. At that time of the year, one would expect the field to be in top condition, but it wasn't even close.
GulfCoastTider said:
Looking at the field Saturday, it appears that the soil is too clayey or compacted. Clayey soils compact very easily. Sandy soils not so much. Soils with heavy clay content can be aerated and the turf growing on them topdressed with a combination of compost and sand to improve drainage.

That may be all that's needed.
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something tells me that the amount of paint applied to the center logo and EZ's doesn't help. From my POV those areas were the worst. Everything said previous makes perfect sense, I'm sure the paint complicates it. When daylight hours begin to wane in the Fall, the few days of unpainted sunlight those areas of grass get doesn't allow it much growth.
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Checking back, I can't find the thread about the aquifer under the field. Our search engine is a bit of blunt instrument. However, the last time the turf and underlayment was torn out and replaced was 2004. It was done under warranty because the turf existing at that time had failed. It's far from a simple problem, though. The temptation is to try to characterize it as such...
 
TIDE-HSV said:
To elaborate about the creek and its impact on drainage, the stadium guy said that, in extended periods of heavy rainfall - i.e. last year and this, the water table under the field rises to the point where there is simply no drainage at all. We have a similar situation here in HSV on the south side of Monte Sano, where Hampton Cove, an upscale neighborhood lies. It could never be developed on septic tanks because, when a percolation hole was dug, rather than the water draining away, to be timed, water rose in the hole instead. As I said, consideration has been given to diverting the underground aquifer under BDS, but, where it would have to be intercepted, buildings are inconveniently sitting on it. IOW, this is not a simple problem to be solved by simple means. Over the years, I've finally become convinced of this...

Edit: Hampton Cove was developed when sewer was finally available. This year I've had 8' of rain fall in my 3 acre yard. Every drop ended up in Hampton Cove, and they've had flooding the last couple of years. Man doesn't always prevail against nature...
Click to expand...

I was still in Huntsville doing landscaping and farming when Hampton Cove was built. I did a lot of landscaping in the early phases of that development. I said that I would love to be doing foundation repair in 5 - 10 years, and I would set up shop on the highway.
 
TIDE-HSV said:
As it's been explained to me, the passing t-storm is not the problem. The last two years (ironically following years of drought) have seen so much steady rain through the whole year that the aquifer has swollen to the point to where it's always just under the field surface. The whole field is literally sitting on a river. They've spent a lot of time and lot of $$$ on it. If a few inches of topsoil sitting on top of an underground river would solve it, they'd've done it. It's a major problem in even thinking about dropping the field (aside from the LOS problems). They can never even think about it until something is done about the aquifer (diversion)...
Click to expand...

when the site for LP Field (then Adelphia Colesseum, home of the Titans) was being excavated, the crew struck water. From my understanding, the springs they struck were being fed by the Cumberland River, which the stadium sits on the banks of. There was never a real issue before because all that used to sit on the site was a recycling plant which, structurally, didn't require the depth that a 67,000 seat stadium requires. I'm told that engineers were forced to build a pump system under the stadium to eliminate the problem. Obviously, much easier to do at the genesis of the construction process.....
 
bamanut_aj said:
when the site for LP Field (then Adelphia Colesseum, home of the Titans) was being excavated, the crew struck water. From my understanding, the springs they struck were being fed by the Cumberland River, which the stadium sits on the banks of. There was never a real issue before because all that used to sit on the site was a recycling plant which, structurally, didn't require the depth that a 67,000 seat stadium requires. I'm told that engineers were forced to build a pump system under the stadium to eliminate the problem. Obviously, much easier to do at the genesis of the construction process.....
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IIRC, BDS does have a water pump system under the field surface. Eli Gold was singing its praises during one of our games earlier this year after a solid week of rain, in which the field was not holding water.
 
CrimsonDollar said:
IIRC, BDS does have a water pump system under the field surface. Eli Gold was singing its praises during one of our games earlier this year after a solid week of rain, in which the field was not holding water.
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well, if they kept the receipt Home Depot will give them a full refund...without the receipt they'll only get a store credit. ;)

Seriously, though, I didn't realize that. Thanks for the info! :PDT_Aliboronz_15:
 
I ended up sitting next to one of the head grounds keeper at Innisfree years ago and he explained part of the problem to me. I originally understood him to be telling me there were large drainage pipes running under the stadium, but then I realized he was saying it was a natural water source. He didn't seem very hopeful that it would ever be fully corrected because of the cost associated with it and the size and scope of the project would be much larger than the stadium site itself.

At the time, he said it would be done if we ever did an endzone expansion. So much for that idea. I think we may have passed by the opportunity to see it fixed, at least with the technology we have available to us today. In the future there may be an opportunity to fix it. But you never know because I never thought we'd see the old basements on the quad dug up again either.
 
Wrong. The idea that it's a drainage problem is silly.

The real problem with the field at BDS is this Mark Ingram character. He keeps running up and down the field tearing up huge chunks of sod.
 
Noah.Dreams said:
You are exactly right. When I was walking the field in August 2008, the surface was so compacted it was hard as a rock and the grass was badly burned. At that time of the year, one would expect the field to be in top condition, but it wasn't even close.
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Yep. The conditions I observed appear to be classic signs of compaction. At any time after a good rainfall or irrigation, you should be able to shove a 6" screw driver blade through the sod and into the soil, all the way to the hilt. If you can't, compaction is a problem.

Give me one season and access to the topdressing materials (compost, sand, topsoil) and the equipment (deep plug aerators and reel mowers), and I'll have that turf in a much better condition than it's in by the time Nittany Lions show up next fall. Maybe not Dodger Stadium good, but good enough for HDTV.

I've pleased four-star generals with gorgeous parade grounds. I think I could make Coach Moore and Coach Saban happy.

I'm sure Earle's recollection of the geologic history of the area is accurate, which means the long term solution would probably cost a lot more than the $1 million SWAG I threw out yesterday. That would involve ripping out almost everything, installing slurry walls down to bedrock, and installing new pumping and irrigation systems. Mucho diniero.
 
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