Link: Tua discusses leaving early or staying.

KrAzY3

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Yeah, that's the elephant in the room concerning the biggest game on his resume. The 4 tds are negated to 1 considering his goal-line pick 6 was a 14 point swing literally.
That also gets back to how the QB is used though. AJ has a full season in which he had only 3 INTs, and threw for 30 TDs. However, he threw the ball more his last season, had 7 picks and 2 against Oklahoma and Miss. State.

Mac Jones doesn't look particularily turnover prone, but if they ask him to take bigger risks too often, they might end up regretting it.
 

rgw

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Good points. But when you listen to CNS talk about BY, much of it is about leadership and character. I think his talent is obvious for all to see, but I have a feeling the staff sees a "leader" in BY that may affect the game, locker room and culture of the team.

And if the natural talent is there...it may get him on the field faster than Tua.
No doubt. I was kinda taken aback by how effusive Saban was in praising Bryce Young. It is tough to get him to say that about 3rd or 4th year players sometimes.
 

Bamabuzzard

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I'm not suggesting BY starts next year (assuming he signs today) or that he's better than the other person he's being compared to. But there's a reason lots of folks are "high" on this guy.

Going to drop this here for you to consider:

Bryce Young's high school stats. Total Passing Yards 13,250 Passing TDs 152 Rushing TD's 26
Tua Tagovailoa's high school stats. Total passing yards 8,158 Passing TD's 84 Rushing TD's 27
Personally, I want the "RIGHT NOW" best guy running the offense. So if Young comes in and flashes greatness here and there, is OUTRIGHT better than Mac. I don't want Young behind center except in mop up duty or strategically designed parts of the game. It is very tempting
No doubt. I was kinda taken aback by how effusive Saban was in praising Bryce Young. It is tough to get him to say that about 3rd or 4th year players sometimes.
I don't think Saban truly believed we had LEADERS on this year's squad and possibly last year's as well. Not like he's used to having. In years past he's been used to a Fitzpatrick, Johnathan Allen, C.J. Moseley, A.J. McCarron, Barrett Jones, SOMEBODY!!!, stepping up and being a leader. He may feel he finally has a kid that there's no doubt this is what he is and there's a lot of excitement in that.
 
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rgw

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If Tua has any fault, I think it may be that he's more of the team's friend than the team's leader. The team clearly loves him but I don't know if he's naturally the kinda leader you need in a violent sport like football. It is hard to say without being in the locker room. Just an observation where I may be reading into things that aren't really there.
 

B1GTide

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Didn't Saban change the team leaders committee or whatever it was called? Said it wasn't working anymore so he changed the way he managed issues that needed team leader feedback? Seems like I remember something along those lines.
 

CajunCrimson

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Everything is now shifting back the other way. People (from ESPN with good hair) are starting to move Tua back into the Top 10 on draft boards, etc. The QB class is pretty weak overall -- and I guess with Fromm coming back, it just got a tad weaker (but just a tad).....

Good thing Kiper is as respected as he is by NFL Teams.....
 

BamaMoon

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That also gets back to how the QB is used though. AJ has a full season in which he had only 3 INTs, and threw for 30 TDs. However, he threw the ball more his last season, had 7 picks and 2 against Oklahoma and Miss. State.

Mac Jones doesn't look particularily turnover prone, but if they ask him to take bigger risks too often, they might end up regretting it.
No doubt...but our offensive philosophy and the SEC is trending more toward airing it out and trying to be 'good enough" on defense. So if you throw a couple of pix 6s, you better also throw about 6 more TDs. :p

And there's no doubt, based on BY's HS stats, he can flat out throw the ball with huge results.
 
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BamaMoon

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Personally, I want the "RIGHT NOW" best guy running the offense. So if Young comes in and flashes greatness here and there, is OUTRIGHT better than Mac. I don't want Young behind center except in mop up duty or strategically designed parts of the game. It is very tempting


I don't think Saban truly believed we had LEADERS on this year's squad and possibly last year's as well. Not like he's used to having. In years past he's been used to a Fitzpatrick, Johnathan Allen, C.J. Moseley, A.J. McCarron, Barrett Jones, SOMEBODY!!!, stepping up and being a leader. He may feel he finally has a kid that there's no doubt this is what he is and there's a lot of excitement in that.
Agreed on both paragraphs...we know Tua was better than Jalen in arm talent from day one...so I wonder if the "leadership" qualities were there that CNS thought he'd need to take over.

It's why I think we need to listen when CNS says more about BY's character and leadership than he does about his talent, which is plainly obvious.

If Tua has any fault, I think it may be that he's more of the team's friend than the team's leader. The team clearly loves him but I don't know if he's naturally the kinda leader you need in a violent sport like football. It is hard to say without being in the locker room. Just an observation where I may be reading into things that aren't really there.
He's just so "nice" that it makes you wonder.
 

CrimsonForce

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Everything is now shifting back the other way. People (from ESPN with good hair) are starting to move Tua back into the Top 10 on draft boards, etc. The QB class is pretty weak overall -- and I guess with Fromm coming back, it just got a tad weaker (but just a tad).....

Good thing Kiper is as respected as he is by NFL Teams.....
Every since he had the surgery and was expected to make a full recovery my position has been that I'm pretty confident he still goes in the top 5 and very confident he goes in the top 10 picks. Most of the rationale relates to what you meantioned i.e. weak QB class and QB needy teams are drafting high per usual. Also, the Dolphins have several first round picks and they aren't getting better in 1 year so it's an ideal situation for them to "redshirt" Tua the first year so he can fully recover and then take over as the starter the following year..
 

BamaMoon

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Every since he had the surgery and was expected to make a full recovery my position has been that I'm pretty confident he still goes in the top 5 and very confident he goes in the top 10 picks. Most of the rationale relates to what you meantioned i.e. weak QB class and QB needy teams are drafting high per usual. Also, the Dolphins have several first round picks and they aren't getting better in 1 year so it's an ideal situation for them to "redshirt" Tua the first year so he can fully recover and then take over as the starter the following year..
A couple of years ago Jerry Jones took a linebacker that he knew wouldn't play that year. I guess if you are convinced Tua is that good and you can get him you might be willing to do that. IDK, though, NFL is such a QB centric league.
 

Saban4Ever

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Didn't Saban change the team leaders committee or whatever it was called? Said it wasn't working anymore so he changed the way he managed issues that needed team leader feedback? Seems like I remember something along those lines.

Yes, when I attended the Nick at Noon lunch the weekend of Ole Miss, he talked about leadership. He changed his philosophy this year and selected team leaders each week, instead of the permanent team leaders for the year. He wanted to try something different, he said, because in the past, sometimes the team leaders were not good leaders. He has a point system set up for leaders, what players need to do, etc.

I wonder if he will do this again for next season, or go back to the way it used to be. I guess it depends on the players he has.
 
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Con

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If Tua has any fault, I think it may be that he's more of the team's friend than the team's leader. The team clearly loves him but I don't know if he's naturally the kinda leader you need in a violent sport like football. It is hard to say without being in the locker room. Just an observation where I may be reading into things that aren't really there.
Yea he doesn't seem like that mean son of a gun that would snatch a knot in someone. I definitely feel that the guys love him as a teammate though.
 

CrimsonForce

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A couple of years ago Jerry Jones took a linebacker that he knew wouldn't play that year. I guess if you are convinced Tua is that good and you can get him you might be willing to do that. IDK, though, NFL is such a QB centric league.
That's exactly why QBs are over drafted and go for such a premium in the draft and free agency. If you're the Dolphins with the #3 pick, what does it matter if you draft a pro bowl WR or lineman if Ryan Fitzpatrick is your QB? They, and several other teams drafting in the top 10, need a pro bowl QB to change the direction of their franchise. Right now, here are the teams that could potentially draft Tua in the top 10 that have a need at QB. This does not include other teams who could potentially trade up:

3. Dolphins (self-explanatory)
5. Detroit (aging Stafford)
8. Jacksonville (Foles - not a long term solution)
9. LA Chargers (aging Rivers)
10. Denver (self-explanatory)

For example, just look at the past 5 first round picks by the Dolphins:

2019 #13 overall DL Christian Wilkins
2018 #11 overall CB/S Minkah Fitzpatrick (traded)
2017 #22 overall OLB Charles Harris
2016 #13 overall T Laremy Tunsil (traded)
2015 #14 overall WR DaVante Parker

That's a solid group of players and because they don't have a QB they're picking in the top 3 this year. JMO, but I think they go for Tua with the #3 pick if he comes out..
 

B1GTide

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That's a solid group of players and because they don't have a QB they're picking in the top 3 this year. JMO, but I think they go for Tua with the #3 pick if he comes out..
You are forgetting one thing - the guys making these picks want to keep their jobs. Nothing will get a GM fired faster than picking the wrong QB early in the draft. If they draft Tua #3 and he can't play for whatever reason, the GM is getting fired. So, you draft very carefully when you have an early round pick. You can have any other player fail and folks forget about it. You can't pick wrong with a QB that early and survive.
 

RollTide_HTTR

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You are forgetting one thing - the guys making these picks want to keep their jobs. Nothing will get a GM fired faster than picking the wrong QB early in the draft. If they draft Tua #3 and he can't play for whatever reason, the GM is getting fired. So, you draft very carefully when you have an early round pick. You can have any other player fail and folks forget about it. You can't pick wrong with a QB that early and survive.
Unless your name is Bruce Allen
 
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81usaf92

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That's exactly why QBs are over drafted and go for such a premium in the draft and free agency. If you're the Dolphins with the #3 pick, what does it matter if you draft a pro bowl WR or lineman if Ryan Fitzpatrick is your QB? They, and several other teams drafting in the top 10, need a pro bowl QB to change the direction of their franchise. Right now, here are the teams that could potentially draft Tua in the top 10 that have a need at QB. This does not include other teams who could potentially trade up:

3. Dolphins (self-explanatory)
5. Detroit (aging Stafford)
8. Jacksonville (Foles - not a long term solution)
9. LA Chargers (aging Rivers)
10. Denver (self-explanatory)

For example, just look at the past 5 first round picks by the Dolphins:

2019 #13 overall DL Christian Wilkins
2018 #11 overall CB/S Minkah Fitzpatrick (traded)
2017 #22 overall OLB Charles Harris
2016 #13 overall T Laremy Tunsil (traded)
2015 #14 overall WR DaVante Parker

That's a solid group of players and because they don't have a QB they're picking in the top 3 this year. JMO, but I think they go for Tua with the #3 pick if he comes out..
The Dolphins aren't good evaluators of qb's since Shula retired. Otherwise they would've had Drew Brees or wouldn't have traded Ryan Tannehill for a 6th round pick. So absolutely nothing would surprise me, but I don't think any of the rest of the Top 10 are going to be going for a high risk pick.

-Detroit is behind Patricia and that almost means Defense
- Jags might but they have historically not been about having an elite passer
- Chargers are tricky. I don't know if they are ready to move on from Rivers but it will probably depend on what is their immediate need
- Denver isn't going after a quarterback. Elway rather trade for one than draft one. Plus Drew Lock is giving them a little optimism

If I am a Dolphin fan, I would rather spend both of my 1st round picks to beef up my defense and let some other team take a career defining risk on a quarterback without a single injury free season and no combine score. Too many teams take the "Draft Joey Harrington and Ryan Leaf" strategy because big name college players put butts in seats.
You are forgetting one thing - the guys making these picks want to keep their jobs. Nothing will get a GM fired faster than picking the wrong QB early in the draft. If they draft Tua #3 and he can't play for whatever reason, the GM is getting fired. So, you draft very carefully when you have an early round pick. You can have any other player fail and folks forget about it. You can't pick wrong with a QB that early and survive.
Im really trying to remember if there has ever been a quarterback drafted in the Top 15 without a Combine score or a Pro Bowl or Senior Bowl showing . But I agree that Tua right now is an extremely High Risk-High Reward type pick that I think many GMs are going to be sweating through their shoes when its their turn to pull the trigger on.
 
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Tide99

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Would love to see Tua back in Crimson but if he does come back it's for the love of the game, his teammates, and to take care of unfinished business.

Tua could still be the 1st QB off the board. One season of magic from Burrow doesn't erase the tape both of them have out there. Tua's is far more impressive and he's the better pure QB.

Tua has been Tua since the elite 11 camp and under 3 different coordinators and somewhat different systems. Burrow was an average college qb till he fell into the perfect system with the right athletes around him.

Nothing wrong with Tua's throwing arm and the Docs say 100% recovery is likely. Drew Breeze had a far more serious injury for a QB with the 360 tear of the labrum on his throwing arm.

Thankfully the Dolphins passed and we got Saban because of it! New Orleans became a year in year out Super Bowl contender. Miami won't make the same mistake twice IF Tua is still there at 3. Passing on a potential Goat like Tua may get a GM fired as well.

Who wants to bet against Tua Tagovailoa? Not Me!
 

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