Politics: General Removal of Statues Thread

[TIDE-HSV]

Most schools now in the large cities are changing to "Restorative Justice" programs for discipline. In the process there is a "victim" and "aggressor" and they sit and talk about why the aggressor was wrong and the feelings of the victim. Now the victim may be the actual aggressor, but due to life circumstances or the fact that the teacher is "white" and the student is a "minority" the teacher is the aggressor and the student is in fact the victim due to "historical circumstances".

I'll wait before I call it a movement. I've seen bunches heralded as such...

 

[Ldlane]

Even the BIE (Bureau of Indian Education) is starting to use that "language", although I don't think they know exactly what it means. I think they believe it is something that is integrated, but the reality is that it is meant to supplant.

Decolonizing Education, Part I

Decolonizing Education, Part I

nativenewsonline.net

 

[Ldlane]

Mariátegui, seems to have endured himself to the LatinX crowd and his ideology is now part of that "fringe" movement. He and "Sendero Luminoso" were a major focus of my research while at FSU. He is making a comeback!

In an era where identity politics and cultural nationalism prevents us from taking urgent actions to address the material inequalities in our communities, where Eurocentric objectives of elementary class struggle ignore the historically racialized divisions that we face, Mariátegui serves as a sober alternative which helps us in our struggle to end capitalism and its very real racial divide.

Mariátegui: Father of Indigenous Communism in Latin America

BY CARLOS CRUZ MOSQUERA Can a theory that was developed by white people in the 19th Century be relevant to Latin Americans in the 21st Century? Communism is seen by many Latinx people, especially i…

anticonquista.com

 

[Bamabuzzard]

Most schools now in the large cities are changing to "Restorative Justice" programs for discipline. In the process there is a "victim" and "aggressor" and they sit and talk about why the aggressor was wrong and the feelings of the victim. Now the victim may be the actual aggressor, but due to life circumstances or the fact that the teacher is "white" and the student is a "minority" the teacher is the aggressor and the student is in fact the victim due to "historical circumstances".

I wouldn't call it an official "movement" but something similar is done at my wife's school. My wife's principal is black and to be honest. She walks through life seeing everything through the lenses of race. Any disciplinary action that is implemented from a white teacher to a black child has to go through her first. Because her belief is a white teacher doesn't understand the viewpoint of which a black student is coming from and may "misunderstand" their actions. Basically, the end result in the lion share of these cases is the teacher just "misunderstood" the child and nothing is done. Yeah, you can't make this crap up. The racial angst this creates is very unhealthy.

 

[92tide]

I wouldn't call it an official "movement" but something similar is done at my wife's school. My wife's principal is black and to be honest. She walks through life seeing everything through the lenses of race. Any disciplinary action that is implemented from a white teacher to a black child has to go through her first. Because her belief is a white teacher doesn't understand the viewpoint of which a black student is coming from and may "misunderstand" their actions. Basically, the end result in the lion share of these cases is the teacher just "misunderstood" the child and nothing is done. Yeah, you can't make this crap up. The racial angst this creates is very unhealthy.

i understand what you are saying, but it is almost impossible for a black person in this country to walk through life without seeing everything through a lens of race. they don't have the luxury of not seeing things through a lens of their race.

 

[Ldlane]

It's all part of a larger "Decolonization" of society, history, education, etc..... expressed by Marx and Mao. Even the new language and definition of "Anti-Racist" (Not a bad idea necessarily) is a part of the ideology of Marx. We need to listen to the "language" and slogans around us.

 

[92tide]

It's all part of a larger "Decolonization" of society, history, education, etc..... expressed by Marx and Mao. Even the new language and definition of "Anti-Racist" (Not a bad idea necessarily) is a part of the ideology of Marx. We need to listen to the "language" and slogans around us.

i think you are making much more of this than is actually there.

 

[B1GTide]

i think you are making much more of this than is actually there.

I do, too, but given his location and family situation I understand why he might be. I can also see where we might be underestimating this.

 

[92tide]

I do, too, but given his location and family situation I understand why he might be. I can also see where we might be underestimating this.

yeah, i get that. i agree with earle's post above.

 

[Ldlane]

i think you are making much more of this than is actually there.

I do believe that Oswald acted alone! We shall see. and I did major in Poly Sci/Eco with a focus in Latin America.

 

[92tide]

I do believe that Oswald acted alone! We shall see. and I did major in Poly Sci/Eco with a focus in Latin America.

to be clear, i am not trying to discount your expertise in the matter, and i apologize if it came across that way.

 

[Ldlane]

to be clear, i am not trying to discount your expertise in the matter, and i apologize if it came across that way.

To me, it walks and sounds like a duck!

 

[Bamabuzzard]

i understand what you are saying, but it is almost impossible for a black person in this country to walk through life without seeing everything through a lens of race. they don't have the luxury of not seeing things through a lens of their race.

I agree and I think therein lies part of the solution. Giving people on an individual level the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. That blade needs to cut both ways though. In this particular case. I just don't see how usurping all white teacher's decision making on discipline toward students who are black, based on an assumption that they will not handle it right, is productive or even close to a best practice. Yet allow the same white teachers autonomy on discipline toward other students with brown skin, i.e. Indian, Asian etc. That method has no other outcome but to divide and create racial angst. Even if the principals intentions are legit.

I'll also add (and I don't mean this in a confrontational manner) that seeing life through the lenses of race is a choice. Maybe not an easy choice. But it is still a choice. No matter how we're raised or our personal experiences growing up. Once we become adults and know better, we should do better. No matter how hard the choice is. There are white people that have been taught from birth to be a racist. That's all they heard. As they were being indoctrinated they walked through life with the "racist goggles" and any interaction with a black person were influenced by these "race goggles". It distorted their reality of the situation. However, that's no excuse once they become adults. They now know better so are held to the standard of doing better.

 

[Ldlane]

BTW - here is a link to local NCSS (National Council for the Social Studies) in North Carolina.

There are a lot of good ideas here, but once again the decolonizing thought thrown it:

North Carolina Council for the Social Studies

ncsocialstudies.org

 

[92tide]

I agree and I think therein lies part of the solution. Giving people on an individual level the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. That blade needs to cut both ways though. In this particular case. I just don't see how usurping all white teacher's decision making on discipline toward students who are black, based on an assumption that they will not handle it right, is productive or even close to a best practice. Yet allow the same white teachers autonomy on discipline toward other students with brown skin, i.e. Indian, Asian etc. That method has no other outcome but to divide and create racial angst. Even if the principals intentions are legit.

I'll also add (and I don't mean this in a confrontational manner) that seeing life through the lenses of race is a choice. Maybe not an easy choice. But it is still a choice. No matter how we're raised or our personal experiences growing up. Once we become adults and know better, we should do better. No matter how hard the choice is. There are white people that have been taught from birth to be a racist. That's all they heard. As they were being indoctrinated they walked through life with the "racist goggles" and any interaction with a black person were influenced by these "race goggles". It distorted their reality of the situation. However, that's no excuse once they become adults. They now know better so are held to the standard of doing better.

i agree with your first paragraph and it is a tough nut to crack.

wrt the second one, i think there is a difference between a white person making a choice to view life through a "racist" lens and and asking folks of color to not see things through a race lens. the status quo is that everything is viewed from a perspective of white being the norm and asking people of color to not see through a lens of race is asking them to accept the status quo.

 

[TexasBama]

Rhodes Must Fall - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.

 

[Tidewater]

It's not a "majority" it's just the "squeaky wheel" at the moment.

This is taking things to a very silly extreme.

The University has crossed sabers, and the mascot is the Cavalier, from the English Civil War. The sabers had finger grips, but somebody (and here I honestly think somebody is taking the **** just to see if the University is so stupid that they were willing to take this matter seriously; they were that stupid) alleged that the finger grips on the sword handles was a reflection of the serpentine walls built on the Grounds (UVa's word for "campus") so that students would not have to see and hear slaves who worked on the Grounds. Of course, students who come from a slave society would not be offended by hearing or seeing slaves. They had probably seen lots of slaves in their lives, but whatever.

Literally, you can hardly see the ripples on the handles, but anyone who knows the slightest bit about swords would know that sword handles often have finger grooves so the soldier carrying the sword can hold onto the thing.
A closeup of an 1850 Staff and Field officers sword will show that grooves on the handle are not uncommon.

Maybe a better response would be to get rid of the serpentine walls. Or maybe get rid of the university? Jefferson founded the darn thing and we all know what he was famous for.
I honestly believe some student was trying to see if the university would uncritically accept their complaint and comply. The answer is, yes.
We have reached a particularly silly place.

 

[Im_on_dsp]

We have reached a particularly silly place.

There is hardly a piece of art; painting, song. movie, that cannot be interpreted and twisted to whatever ideology you want. We are a society that is going out of the way to find offence about something. It's almost like some sort of crazy contest to see who can be the most offended.

 

[IMALOYAL1]

There are black people that have been taught from birth to be a racist. That's all they heard. As they were being indoctrinated they walked through life with the "racist goggles" and any interaction with a white person were influenced by these "race goggles". It distorted their reality of the situation.

It goes both ways.

 

[B1GTide]

It goes both ways.

Yes, but in America only one race has power over the others.