The Republican Vote Suppression Machine Is Out of Control

[Chukker Veteran]

The GOP was traditionally concerned about masses of dead people voting but have now moved on to illegal non-citizen voting.

 

[Tidewater]

There were 14 million Democrats who voted to have Joe Biden be their party's nominee.
Big money donors said, "nope," and Biden was replaced by a candidate who received no votes at all.
The party effectively disfranchised 14 million Democratic voters, did they not?

 

[TIDE-HSV]

There were 14 million Democrats who voted to have Joe Biden be their party's nominee.
Big money donors said, "nope," and Biden was replaced by a candidate who received no votes at all.
The party effectively disfranchised 14 million Democratic voters, did they not?

It was done the way it was until '72. "Binding" primaries are a relatively recent invention. There's no constitutional provision at all. It's left up to the states...

 

[Tidewater]

It was done the way it was until '72. "Binding" primaries are a relatively recent invention. There's no constitutional provision at all. It's left up to the states...

Yes, and the party.
To be sure the Democrats are in a much stronger position with Harris at the top of the ticket than Biden, but they did hold an election and then told the voters "wrong."

 

[NationalTitles18]

There were 14 million Democrats who voted to have Joe Biden be their party's nominee.
Big money donors said, "nope," and Biden was replaced by a candidate who received no votes at all.
The party effectively disfranchised 14 million Democratic voters, did they not?

If that’s what you want to tell yourself and if your want to create a false equivalence then knock yourself out and have at it.

 

[92tide]

If that’s what you want to tell yourself and if your want to create a false equivalence then knock yourself out and have at it.

and to think, it's only been 5 weeks since biden withdrew from the race

 

[CrimsonJazz]

Yes, and the party.
To be sure the Democrats are in a much stronger position with Harris at the top of the ticket than Biden, but they did hold an election and then told the voters "wrong."

True, but if the Dems haven’t taught us anything else, at least we now know that democracy is a threat to democracy. And if you disagree, you’re a threat to democracy.

 

[Go Bama]

The decision to withdraw had to be made by Biden himself. There were plenty of people who were telling him it was the right decision, but it was a decision he had to make. The “Biden was forced out” shtick is BS. If Trump or Harris pull out now or die, are we supposed to hold more primaries before November? I certainly don’t feel disenfranchised and haven’t talked to anyone that does.

 

[92tide]

I certainly don’t feel disenfranchised and haven’t talked to anyone that does.

but my god man, are you not concerned ?!!?

 

[Tidewater]

If that’s what you want to tell yourself and if your want to create a false equivalence then knock yourself out and have at it.

Of course the two are not analogous (Biden agreed to step down as the nominee (after Schumer and Pelosi convince him). I'm fairly certain that the party's rules for a candidate stepping down were followed (or there would have been a spate of lawsuits).
Still, I'd bet Biden made the argument that 14 million voters chose him. I'd also bet Pelosi and Schumer told him there was a lot of donor money waiting in the wings that was going to stay in the donors' bank accounts until Biden stepped down as the nominee. The latter argument won the day.

I guess my point is that it would have been better for all concerned if some time after the 2022 mid-terms Biden had announced he was not seeking a second term and allowed the party to have a more normal primary campaign for the nomination.
It may turn out alright and Harris win, but if she does not, I think that some folks in the party who knew Biden's limitations and kept quiet at the relevant time are going to have to do some soul-searching.

 

[NationalTitles18]

Of course the two are not analogous (Biden agreed to step down as the nominee (after Schumer and Pelosi convince him). I'm fairly certain that the party's rules for a candidate stepping down were followed (or there would have been a spate of lawsuits).
Still, I'd bet Biden made the argument that 14 million voters chose him. I'd also bet Pelosi and Schumer told him there was a lot of donor money waiting in the wings that was going to stay in the donors' bank accounts until Biden stepped down as the nominee. The latter argument won the day.

I guess my point is that it would have been better for all concerned if some time after the 2022 mid-terms Biden had announced he was not seeking a second term and allowed the party to have a more normal primary campaign for the nomination.
It may turn out alright and Harris win, but if she does not, I think that some folks in the party who knew Biden's limitations and kept quiet at the relevant time are going to have to do some soul-searching.

Regarding the big money donors:

That was an issue, but by far it was not the biggest issue. The biggest issue was that Biden was not going to pull the votes to beat Trump after that debate disaster - and maybe without that debate disaster. Money means nothing if it doesn't translate to votes in November.

I agree that potentially it would have been better had Biden decided on his own to step down, but I don't believe in 2022 there was any reason for him to do so, Monday morning quarterbacking aside.

This is my opinion of what happened:

An old man got sick and tried to push through like he always had and got himself exhausted. That resulted in a terrible performance that played right into the hands of the "he's got dementia" crowd who let deceitfully edited videos shape their opinion and even when the truth was revealed they didn't care. The debate revealed a man weakened and exhausted by age and illness and the psy-op media blitz afterward was quite convincing. Once enough of the right people came to Biden with the evidence he had little chance of winning Biden made a very consequential decision. I believe it was the right decision.

I do not believe anyone close to Biden have anything to answer for or soul searching to do. The narrative is they hid his dementia, which is silly since he doesn't appear to have it. I know others will chime in and think I'm saying that in ignorance and/or partisanship. Not true. I've seen dementia up close and personal. I get paid to determine if dementia is present and if someone retains capacity for decision making. While that really requires standard examinations in person, I've seen enough to have a decent eye for it. I also know to make the diagnosis you must first account for and if possible eliminate confounding/mimicking factors like infection. The armchair diagnosis crowd apparently does not understand such basics. Whether we want someone of older age who is by nature susceptible to such age related confounders and mimickers is another conversation from this and there is some validity to those arguments.

 

[Padreruf]

Regarding the big money donors:

That was an issue, but by far it was not the biggest issue. The biggest issue was that Biden was not going to pull the votes to beat Trump after that debate disaster - and maybe without that debate disaster. Money means nothing if it doesn't translate to votes in November.

I agree that potentially it would have been better had Biden decided on his own to step down, but I don't believe in 2022 there was any reason for him to do so, Monday morning quarterbacking aside.

This is my opinion of what happened:

An old man got sick and tried to push through like he always had and got himself exhausted. That resulted in a terrible performance that played right into the hands of the "he's got dementia" crowd who let deceitfully edited videos shape their opinion and even when the truth was revealed they didn't care. The debate revealed a man weakened and exhausted by age and illness and the psy-op media blitz afterward was quite convincing. Once enough of the right people came to Biden with the evidence he had little chance of winning Biden made a very consequential decision. I believe it was the right decision.

I do not believe anyone close to Biden have anything to answer for or soul searching to do. The narrative is they hid his dementia, which is silly since he doesn't appear to have it. I know others will chime in and think I'm saying that in ignorance and/or partisanship. Not true. I've seen dementia up close and personal. I get paid to determine if dementia is present and if someone retains capacity for decision making. While that really requires standard examinations in person, I've seen enough to have a decent eye for it. I also know to make the diagnosis you must first account for and if possible eliminate confounding/mimicking factors like infection. The armchair diagnosis crowd apparently does not understand such basics. Whether we want someone of older age who is by nature susceptible to such age related confounders and mimickers is another conversation from this and there is some validity to those arguments.

President Biden may not have enough markers to qualify for a valid definition of dementia, but he does have enough impairment from various sources -- physical, mental, etc., to where his ability to function as a full fledge candidate and president is a valid question. I think he has done a great job under the current political situation, but I get the reasons to ask him to step aside.

I am 73 almost 74 and after taking chemo and other drugs for 3 years I can tell that there are days when I do not function as well -- usually after a fatiguing prior day. Father Time is undefeated...though he had to be pushed I think they arrived at the proper decision.

Odd that now the Repubs are having to defend the candidate who shows obvious signs of aging, etc. Talk about a loose cannon...

 

[NationalTitles18]

President Biden may not have enough markers to qualify for a valid definition of dementia, but he does have enough impairment from various sources -- physical, mental, etc., to where his ability to function as a full fledge candidate and president is a valid question. I think he has done a great job under the current political situation, but I get the reasons to ask him to step aside.

I am 73 almost 74 and after taking chemo and other drugs for 3 years I can tell that there are days when I do not function as well -- usually after a fatiguing prior day. Father Time is undefeated...though he had to be pushed I think they arrived at the proper decision.

Odd that now the Repubs are having to defend the candidate who shows obvious signs of aging, etc. Talk about a loose cannon...

I agree Biden's abilities, in particular related to age-related decline and lack of reserves a younger person would have, are valid concerns for voters.

 

[Chukker Veteran]

I don’t think the Dems had anyone who could have surfaced in a primary and done better than Harris has. One advantage she has is that she wasn’t subjected to a heated primary with other Dems chipping away at her.

 

[Tidewater]

Regarding the big money donors:

That was an issue, but by far it was not the biggest issue. The biggest issue was that Biden was not going to pull the votes to beat Trump after that debate disaster - and maybe without that debate disaster. Money means nothing if it doesn't translate to votes in November.

I agree that potentially it would have been better had Biden decided on his own to step down, but I don't believe in 2022 there was any reason for him to do so, Monday morning quarterbacking aside.

This is my opinion of what happened:

An old man got sick and tried to push through like he always had and got himself exhausted. That resulted in a terrible performance that played right into the hands of the "he's got dementia" crowd who let deceitfully edited videos shape their opinion and even when the truth was revealed they didn't care. The debate revealed a man weakened and exhausted by age and illness and the psy-op media blitz afterward was quite convincing. Once enough of the right people came to Biden with the evidence he had little chance of winning Biden made a very consequential decision. I believe it was the right decision.

I do not believe anyone close to Biden have anything to answer for or soul searching to do. The narrative is they hid his dementia, which is silly since he doesn't appear to have it. I know others will chime in and think I'm saying that in ignorance and/or partisanship. Not true. I've seen dementia up close and personal. I get paid to determine if dementia is present and if someone retains capacity for decision making. While that really requires standard examinations in person, I've seen enough to have a decent eye for it. I also know to make the diagnosis you must first account for and if possible eliminate confounding/mimicking factors like infection. The armchair diagnosis crowd apparently does not understand such basics. Whether we want someone of older age who is by nature susceptible to such age related confounders and mimickers is another conversation from this and there is some validity to those arguments.

So, you believe now Joe Biden is fine mentally and just had one bad evening? Would that not mean his stepping down was unfair (both to Joe and those who voted for him)?
If he really is now sharp mentally and just had a bad night, if I was advising him, I'd tell him to get out there, off teleprompter, and do adversarial interviews (as in, an interview on Fox News or some other less than friendly media source), or town hall meetings, etc. to show he is fine. I'd tell him, "Mr. President, go out and prove the critics wrong."

 

[NationalTitles18]

So, you believe now Joe Biden is fine mentally and just had one bad evening? Would that not mean his stepping down was unfair (both to Joe and those who voted for him)?
If he really is now sharp mentally and just had a bad night, if I was advising him, I'd tell him to get out there, off teleprompter, and do adversarial interviews (as in, an interview on Fox News or some other less than friendly media source), or town hall meetings, etc. to show he is fine. I'd tell him, "Mr. President, go out and prove the critics wrong."

Good for you. Maybe you'll get the chance to do that one day. I'm pulling for you.

 

[TIDE-HSV]

Yes, and the party.
To be sure the Democrats are in a much stronger position with Harris at the top of the ticket than Biden, but they did hold an election and then told the voters "wrong."

I just don't see it that way. Harris wasn't a choice then. If anyone deprived them of a vote, it was Joe...

 

[92tide]

i would imagine there are a very small number of folks who voted in the dem primaries who would consider themselves deprived of a vote.

 

[Jon]

this seems like it is going to end well

Inside Ziklag, the Secret Organization of Wealthy Christians Trying to Sway the Election and Change the Country

The little-known charity is backed by famous conservative donors, including the families behind Hobby Lobby and Uline. It’s spending millions to make a big political push for this election — but it may be violating the law.

www.propublica.org

 

[92tide]

this seems like it is going to end well

Inside Ziklag, the Secret Organization of Wealthy Christians Trying to Sway the Election and Change the Country

The little-known charity is backed by famous conservative donors, including the families behind Hobby Lobby and Uline. It’s spending millions to make a big political push for this election — but it may be violating the law.

www.propublica.org

for folks who were commissioned to spread the “good news”, these groups sure do a lot of shady and underhanded stuff in secret