Thoughts on QB situation after Game 5?

[RammerJammer14]

Speaking of holding on to the ball ….. Tua had that habit and if I remember correctly it was the Mississippi State game that ended with him getting his hip crushed because he held on to the ball too long !!!!! I may be mistaken but He really shouldn’t have even been in the game at that point . And like someone already pointed out Bryce had a habit of holding on to the ball
and that led to his injury last year . Ya know, I’m certainly no expert but I’m rooting for Jalen …. If Coach has faith in him then who and I to second guess his decision . I really do believe the young man has potential ….. to bad we are having to watch it unfold as the season progresses ….. hell it could be worse , he could be going backwards but I think he’s been moving forward and I pray he continues to improve !!! Roll Tide !

You are correct and that was I think the second game that season (2019) where Tua got himself significantly injured because he just refused to admit a play was dead and held onto the ball too long trying to make something happen. I forget the exact game but it was before LSU because I remember it was questionable if he was going to be healthy for LSU. Then he did the same thing against MSU and it very nearly ended his career. It did end his season and probably cost us the AU game.

 

[KrAzY3]

Milroe’s comp% is overinflated right now because he’s eating Bad sacks instead of throwing the ball away that would register as incomplete.

I completely agree with this and pointed it out myself, but I'm just trying to point out that there are positives as well.

Things can get worse, or they can get better, but my main point is I don't see anything from Simpson that causes me to believe he's going to do more now to help Alabama win.

If the OL play improves a bit, the play calling improves a bit, other areas improve like RB and WR play, and as you alluded to Milroe learns to throw the ball away, he could actually have a very, very good season. Or of course things could head in the wrong direction.

But I've seen positives, Alabama actually played one of their best games in two years against Ole Miss. Milroe has faced the 7th hardest schedule in all of football and overall his stats are actually solid. Another really tough test coming up, but either he survives and lives to fight another day or Alabama will be in somewhat of a rebuilding year and might have to take another look at the position.

There's just too much to lose right now to do that though... Alabama has one quarterback that's won multiple SEC games as a starter and that's Milroe.

 

[BamaInBham]

So many people are missing the point. NO ONE is saying Simpson is Tua. All we are saying is Milroe has proven who he is, but more importantly who he’s not. He will not throw the ball away, and he continually costs us points! Ty can make all the throws. Do we know for sure if Ty can win a title? No, but we know FOR SURE we will not win a title with Milroe.

We know neither one of those things. The coaches have to trust their judgment - they would be fools to go with the opinion of anyone in the fan base. The coaches make mistakes but their judgment is far better than the fans, based on far better experience and far more info and far better motivation - their jobs and reputations are on the line. Some decisions are not easy and consensus is not always unanimous.

In this case, I agree with the coaches and have seen marked improvement in Milroe. He’s already doing things that his detractors say he will never be able to do, e.g., upping his intermediate game, scanning the field, etc.

 

[LeBron47]

Whether a coach has won a national title or not does not mean he doesn't know how to coach or evaluate QB talent. Here are QB's that played under Leach...either as a head coach or OC or QB coach.

Tim Couch....#1 draft pick 1999
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury

I'm not listing all his QB's that hold passing records or are very high in passing record lists. That would include multiple QB's from Texas Tech and Washington State over the years.

Now, let's include his coaching tree.....which includes two I listed above....

Lincoln Riley - USC
Sonny Dykes - TCU
Dave Aranda - Baylor (made a name for himself as DC at LSU)
Dana Holgorsen - Houston
Neal Brown - WVU (made a name for himself at Troy)

The guy could coach, he won at places that weren't known for winning before he got there.

I am not questioning his ability to coach. The question was what were the outcomes as a Head Coach. He is not nor has any of his coaching tree proved themselves to be National Title contenders. I don’t consider TCU a quality National Title contender, the quality of schedule was not there and they lost their Conference Championship in the Big 12 to a team ranked outside or barely inside the top ten of the CFP. But if you are asking me who I am going to quote regarding championship type players between, CNS, CKS (I feel dirty now need a bath ),Urban Meyer, CPB, or The Pirate? I don’t think it even a close contest.

 

[BamaMoon]

For whatever reason, it's live or die with Milroe.
Milroe is not Hurts.
Simpson is not McElroy or AJ or Coker. Certainly not Tua or Bryce.
We don't have Julio or Amari or Ridley or the amazing roster of Ruggs, Jeudy, Smith, and Waddle.
This will be an interesting season...perhaps Saban's best coaching job ever...

I'm not sure where I'm going with this...but I love bacon...

I appreciate the complete honesty and the bacon reference too!!! 😁 You are right this could be CNS's greatest coaching job if he hedged his bet right. Not to be negative (because that's not my nature) but there's also the possibility this season could go sideways as we start to get to the meat of the schedule; starting this week.

I think it's widely accepted that "we live or die" with JM, but we really don't know except at the moment he's all we know. TAMU will tell us a lot more. I think we can all agree on that.

But, what do we know now. All we know about these QBs at this moment is:

JM: While improving, he isn't there YET. Offense is clunky around his skills. But we KNOW what we have; the good, bad and ugly. Now, I think it was suggested that maybe we've sandbagged some of JM's skills up to this point so it could be unleashed against TAMU. I find that laughable, but we'll see if he suddenly turns into a different QB. And if he does, this discussion is over and we can all be 100% on board rooting for him and the Crimson Tide. But the uncomfortable question is, what if this game goes sideways??? Are will willing after game 6 to say "we are going to die with JM?"

Buchner: He's probably not as BAD as he looked in his one start seems to indicate, but there is a record of him having a week to get starting reps and he had an entire half to show his stuff and now we KNOW what he is and what he isn't.

Ty Simpson: Here's the rub. What "rubs me the wrong way" is we really don't KNOW what he can do if he's given a REAL chance. We've seen hints of his abilities. After hearing he struggled (along with JM) all spring, he looked really efficient in the actual A-Day game. When we've seen him in game reps when he's given a chance to throw he looks the part. I think everyone agrees he's got the best passing skills/technique of the 3 and it's not even close. I refuse to accept the second half of the USF game is what we'd look like with TS as a starter BECAUSE HE DIDN'T START THAT WEEK. Something wasn't right in that game with the level of effort, but he also wasn't given the starting reps that week and was reportedly demoted to #3 on the depth chart. Considering he came into the game when it was 3-3 and we won a sloppy 17-3 "effort" (lots of pun intended) is actually a compliment to his resiliency and ability to make chicken salad out of a terrible game effort and bad weather situation.

So, if you are still reading, I'll reiterate (just as Tusk said in a post above) this subject is tiring simply because everyone acts as if WE KNOW Simpson isn't a better option when in FACT we don't know and it's frustrating because he wasn't given the same opportunity that Milroe and Buchner were given. Furthermore, it's tiring because NOBODY who's concerned about the way the offense has struggled up to this point is saying we believe Simpson is another Tua (nobody is saying that) OR that we KNOW Simpson would be far, far better.

So here's the question I have that I really don't want to ask, but it's very, very relevant: If we really believe it's live or die with JM, but this Saturday our offense can't produce sustainable drives and points with him as QB#1, are we really going to "die" with him (if he struggles)???

If we continue to struggle on offense, wouldn't we like to see CNS try "the Simpson experiment" just like we've already conducted ones on JM and TB???

 

[BamaMoon]

I am not questioning his ability to coach. The question was what were the outcomes as a Head Coach. He is not nor has any of his coaching tree proved themselves to be National Title contenders. I don’t consider TCU a quality National Title contender, the quality of schedule was not there and they lost their Conference Championship in the Big 12 to a team ranked outside or barely inside the top ten of the CFP. But if you are asking me who I am going to quote regarding championship type players between, CNS, CKS (I feel dirty now need a bath ),Urban Meyer, CPB, or The Pirate? I don’t think it even a close contest.

Of course, if we are talking about NC you wouldn't quote the Pirate, but that's not what this is about. The quote shared earlier was about Leach's evaluation of a good QB.

This thread is about evaluating our QB position after 5 weeks and the Leach quote was very relevant to that.

 

[Toddrn]

I appreciate the complete honesty and the bacon reference too!!! 😁 You are right this could be CNS's greatest coaching job if he hedged his bet right. Not to be negative (because that's not my nature) but there's also the possibility this season could go sideways as we start to get to the meat of the schedule; starting this week.

I think it's widely accepted that "we live or die" with JM, but we really don't know except at the moment he's all we know. TAMU will tell us a lot more. I think we can all agree on that.

But, what do we know now. All we know about these QBs at this moment is:

JM: While improving, he isn't there YET. Offense is clunky around his skills. But we KNOW what we have; the good, bad and ugly. Now, I think it was suggested that maybe we've sandbagged some of JM's skills up to this point so it could be unleashed against TAMU. I find that laughable, but we'll see if he suddenly turns into a different QB. And if he does, this discussion is over and we can all be 100% on board rooting for him and the Crimson Tide. But the uncomfortable question is, what if this game goes sideways??? Are will willing after game 6 to say "we are going to die with JM?"

Buchner: He's probably not as BAD as he looked in his one start seems to indicate, but there is a record of him having a week to get starting reps and he had an entire half to show his stuff and now we KNOW what he is and what he isn't.

Ty Simpson: Here's the rub. What "rubs me the wrong way" is we really don't KNOW what he can do if he's given a REAL chance. We've seen hints of his abilities. After hearing he struggled (along with JM) all spring, he looked really efficient in the actual A-Day game. When we've seen him in game reps when he's given a chance to throw he looks the part. I think everyone agrees he's got the best passing skills/technique of the 3 and it's not even close. I refuse to accept the second half of the USF game is what we'd look like with TS as a starter BECAUSE HE DIDN'T START THAT WEEK. Something wasn't right in that game with the level of effort, but he also wasn't given the starting reps that week and was reportedly demoted to #3 on the depth chart. Considering he came into the game when it was 3-3 and we won a sloppy 17-3 "effort" (lots of pun intended) is actually a compliment to his resiliency and ability to make chicken salad out of a terrible game effort and bad weather situation.

So, if you are still reading, I'll reiterate (just as Tusk said in a post above) this subject is tiring simply because everyone acts as if WE KNOW Simpson isn't a better option when in FACT we don't know and it's frustrating because he wasn't given the same opportunity that Milroe and Buchner were given. Furthermore, it's tiring because NOBODY who's concerned about the way the offense has struggled up to this point is saying we believe Simpson is another Tua (nobody is saying that) OR that we KNOW Simpson would be far, far better.

So here's the question I have that I really don't want to ask, but it's very, very relevant: If we really believe it's live or die with JM, but this Saturday our offense can't produce sustainable drives and points with him as QB#1, are we really going to "die" with him (if he struggles)???

If we continue to struggle on offense, wouldn't we like to see CNS try "the Simpson experiment" just like we've already conducted ones on JM and TB???

Yes we would.

 

[Cruloc]

I appreciate the complete honesty and the bacon reference too!!! 😁 You are right this could be CNS's greatest coaching job if he hedged his bet right. Not to be negative (because that's not my nature) but there's also the possibility this season could go sideways as we start to get to the meat of the schedule; starting this week.

I think it's widely accepted that "we live or die" with JM, but we really don't know except at the moment he's all we know. TAMU will tell us a lot more. I think we can all agree on that.

But, what do we know now. All we know about these QBs at this moment is:

JM: While improving, he isn't there YET. Offense is clunky around his skills. But we KNOW what we have; the good, bad and ugly. Now, I think it was suggested that maybe we've sandbagged some of JM's skills up to this point so it could be unleashed against TAMU. I find that laughable, but we'll see if he suddenly turns into a different QB. And if he does, this discussion is over and we can all be 100% on board rooting for him and the Crimson Tide. But the uncomfortable question is, what if this game goes sideways??? Are will willing after game 6 to say "we are going to die with JM?"

Buchner: He's probably not as BAD as he looked in his one start seems to indicate, but there is a record of him having a week to get starting reps and he had an entire half to show his stuff and now we KNOW what he is and what he isn't.

Ty Simpson: Here's the rub. What "rubs me the wrong way" is we really don't KNOW what he can do if he's given a REAL chance. We've seen hints of his abilities. After hearing he struggled (along with JM) all spring, he looked really efficient in the actual A-Day game. When we've seen him in game reps when he's given a chance to throw he looks the part. I think everyone agrees he's got the best passing skills/technique of the 3 and it's not even close. I refuse to accept the second half of the USF game is what we'd look like with TS as a starter BECAUSE HE DIDN'T START THAT WEEK. Something wasn't right in that game with the level of effort, but he also wasn't given the starting reps that week and was reportedly demoted to #3 on the depth chart. Considering he came into the game when it was 3-3 and we won a sloppy 17-3 "effort" (lots of pun intended) is actually a compliment to his resiliency and ability to make chicken salad out of a terrible game effort and bad weather situation.

So, if you are still reading, I'll reiterate (just as Tusk said in a post above) this subject is tiring simply because everyone acts as if WE KNOW Simpson isn't a better option when in FACT we don't know and it's frustrating because he wasn't given the same opportunity that Milroe and Buchner were given. Furthermore, it's tiring because NOBODY who's concerned about the way the offense has struggled up to this point is saying we believe Simpson is another Tua (nobody is saying that) OR that we KNOW Simpson would be far, far better.

So here's the question I have that I really don't want to ask, but it's very, very relevant: If we really believe it's live or die with JM, but this Saturday our offense can't produce sustainable drives and points with him as QB#1, are we really going to "die" with him OR (if he struggles)???

If we continue to struggle on offense, wouldn't we like to see CNS try "the Simpson experiment" just like we've already conducted ones on JM and TB???

I fully believe, at this point, we are sink or swim with Milroe. We look stuck in the mud, Milroe. We hit a 50 yard bomb, Milroe. We look discombobulated, Milroe. We hit a 30 yard run, Milroe.

Its all or nothing...unless our OL can mash and we run the ball down their throats, which is highly unlikely given their DL talent and strength.

But what do I know, I'm not a coach, having a dissenting opinion isn't popular, and Milroes improvement has been amazing hasn't it. Remarkable even. Hes the next Jalen Hurts.

 

[BamaMoon]

I fully believe, at this point, we are sink or swim with Milroe. We look stuck in the mud, Milroe. We hit a 50 yard bomb, Milroe. We look discombobulated, Milroe. We hit a 30 yard run, Milroe.

Its all or nothing...unless our OL can mash and we run the ball down their throats, which is highly unlikely given their DL talent and strength.

But what do I know, I'm not a coach, having a dissenting opinion isn't popular, and Milroes improvement has been amazing hasn't it. Remarkable even. Hes the next Jalen Hurts.

But that's the question: Will we? Can we live with him and win games? We'll get more clarity on this Saturday. He plays well and we walk out of Kyle field with a win (and I don't see how we do unless JM plays well) the Bama Nation's faith will be strengthened that things are improving and we might could win the SEC and/or NC with JM at QB. To be clear: THIS IS EVERY BAMA FAN'S DESIRE!

But, will we die with him too? That's the looming question but almost everyone seems 100% confident we die with him too if we lose this game.

I'm completely lost as to what CNS will do but this we know: if we leave Kyle field with a "L" we've got six more games and five of them are against Arkansas, UT, LSU, KY and the Barn (last two on the road).

 

[KrAzY3]

Let me just say generally speaking, I don't see a way around the guy being Milroe right now. Saban actually took a huge risk giving serious playing time to the other two QBs but it was about as much as he could do without throwing the season away to try to see if someone else would emerge. They didn't, so now he has to roll the dice on Milroe.

Having said that, if Alabama loses to A&M then everything changes because the playoff is not going to happen and from that point any other loss means a heck of a lot less. I mean a loss now means no championship, a third loss means? A worse bowl game probably? It just doesn't carry the same weight so I don't care as much what would happen after that and I'm not sure Saban does either, he could take more risks. It's one of the great limitation he has at Alabama, almost every game a championship is on the line so certain things he just can't do even if he wants to.

Anyway, as to the intermediate passing stuff, I thought this was interesting (and does show some hope): https://alabama.rivals.com/news/gif-breakdown-a-look-at-jalen-milroe-s-improved-intermediate-passing

 

[dtgreg]

I believe Simpson has ticked off the coaching staff by either his attitude or "leadership skills" or his play just hasn't been that great. Either this or we're just so bad on the line and at center that we feel he'll not be given a true chance to function and we need a guy (Milroe) who has a chance to make something out of nothing.

Maybe the team really backs Milroe over the others but you can't prove it by me when I see the ball snapped over his head, into the ground, and false starts constantly. Either they hate him or we're just that messed up/bad.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I think we're dead this year, and it's only a matter of time.

You can win with a game manager who doesn't screw up a lot (Bennett, Cardale Jones, AJ, Greg)
You can win with a quarterback who knows what he's doing (Mac, Burrow, Sunshine, Tua, Watson, Rapist Winston, Cam, Tebow)

The KEY is that the first kind ONLY works if the QB doesn't screw up.

Jalen Hurts's biggest flaw was he was afraid to throw the ball when he should.
Jalen Milroe's biggest flaw is he's NOT afraid to throw the ball when he SHOULDN'T.

How in the Hell did Alabama of all teams get in this kind of predicament?
Four QBs on a roster and not one that the fans can really trust.

How is that even possible?


And spare me the Eeyore nonsense, folks.

I haven't been this resigned to a non-championship year since 2007.

And I HOPE - hope - I'm wrong.

 

[BamaMoon]

Let me just say generally speaking, I don't see a way around the guy being Milroe right now. Saban actually took a huge risk giving serious playing time to the other two QBs but it was about as much as he could do without throwing the season away to try to see if someone else would emerge. They didn't, so now he has to roll the dice on Milroe.

Having said that, if Alabama loses to A&M then everything changes because the playoff is not going to happen and from that point any other loss means a heck of a lot less. I mean a loss now means no championship, a third loss means? A worse bowl game probably? It just doesn't carry the same weight so I don't care as much what would happen after that and I'm not sure Saban does either, he could take more risks. It's one of the great limitation he has at Alabama, almost every game a championship is on the line so certain things he just can't do even if he wants to.

Anyway, as to the intermediate passing stuff, I thought this was interesting (and does show some hope): https://alabama.rivals.com/news/gif-breakdown-a-look-at-jalen-milroe-s-improved-intermediate-passing

I'm not completely sure another loss means we are out of the CFP. Another loss doesn't remove us from SECW contention for sure and if we could run the rest of our SEC schedule and get to the SECCG and beat (an undefeated or one loss Georgia presumably) we'd still be strong contenders considering our other loss was to UT.

 

[Cruloc]

But that's the question: Will we? Can we live with him and win games? We'll get more clarity on this Saturday. He plays well and we walk out of Kyle field with a win (and I don't see how we do unless JM plays well) the Bama Nation's faith will be strengthened that things are improving and we might could win the SEC and/or NC with JM at QB. To be clear: THIS IS EVERY BAMA FAN'S DESIRE!

But, will we die with him too? That's the looming question but almost everyone seems 100% confident we die with him too if we lose this game.

I'm completely lost as to what CNS will do but this we know: if we leave Kyle field with a "L" we've got six more games and five of them are against Arkansas, UT, LSU, KY and the Barn (last two on the road).

Given that Milroe will have taken all the 1st team reps since the end of the USF game....yeah, we're sink or swim. But I've been assured on here that he can in fact do things he hasn't done so far because he's improving....so no worries, we shouldn't see any catastrophic mistakes against good teams anymore.

I do sincerely hope the kid plays out of his mind and racks up so much yardage that Jimbo gets fired immediately after the game. Then again, maybe a portal will open to fantasy land and instead of Aggies we'll play against Collies.

 

[BamaMoon]

I believe Simpson has ticked off the coaching staff by either his attitude or "leadership skills" or his play just hasn't been that great. Either this or we're just so bad on the line and at center that we feel he'll not be given a true chance to function and we need a guy (Milroe) who has a chance to make something out of nothing.

Maybe the team really backs Milroe over the others but you can't prove it by me when I see the ball snapped over his head, into the ground, and false starts constantly. Either they hate him or we're just that messed up/bad.

I believe there MUST BE some off the field stuff going on with Simpson too. The fact he was presumed to be #3 behind Buchner going into USF (after seeing how bad Buchner was) suggests something else was/has been going on.

But if the team "picked Milroe" to back that doesn't mean they wouldn't still make some mistakes. It just shows that even if they got the QB they want to play hardest for, we are still pretty flawed on that side of the ball.

 

[Superdad]

Hey all I can say is there’s no vitriol from me in either situation.

I watch the games and rewatch the highlights and go back and watch individual plays and make my statements that I feel are objective and fair criticisms as well as compliments where warranted.

The criticisms a lot of us had about Jalen Hurts in 2017 were absolutely accurate at the time as far as his deficiencies and how Tua was the better option then and we were super right about that.

What we were wrong about and what I have owned up to several times is Jalen Hurts being an NFL starter.

But to his credit he worked his butt off to address everything he needed to improve on and did a lot of it behind the scenes as a backup after being benched. Enos helped him as well as did Riley at OU. But Jalen Hurts put in that work….He did obsessive work… Nick Saban level drive and obsession which is RARE.

Anyone can search my history too and see I never had a personal beef about him either and that I supported him and was a huge fan and followed him at OU and then to Philly. I freakin LOVE Jalen Hurts.

I really like Jalen Milroe the person too. He’s extremely likable and says all the right things when a mic is in front on him.

I was rooting for him in the off season and came away really impressed after Game 1 this year. I thought he might really be the guy.

But a LOT has happened since then including a LOT of really bad plays and decisions. Some just abysmal choices that led to horrific INT’s and multiple bad sacks. Tons of risky throws into double and triple coverage that were almost INT’s or had to be caught by circus catches.

Hurts as a True Freshman never threw a single INT that I remember even close to as bad as the 3 Milroe has thrown as a 3rd year player.

Hurts went through a period of being gun shy too but he usually escaped loss yardage tackles and sacks and got back to the LOS or better after he left the pocket. He sure didn’t put the ball in jeopardy either just slinging into area littered with traffic.

Bottom line is they might both be named Jalen but this ain’t an Apples to Apples comparison.

I agree. I was/am amazed at how much Hurts has progressed. But, it was obvious (at least to me) that he didn't start to really get better until he got benched.

 

[davefrat]

I think we're dead this year, and it's only a matter of time.

You can win with a game manager who doesn't screw up a lot (Bennett, Cardale Jones, AJ, Greg)
You can win with a quarterback who knows what he's doing (Mac, Burrow, Sunshine, Tua, Watson, Rapist Winston, Cam, Tebow)

The KEY is that the first kind ONLY works if the QB doesn't screw up.

Jalen Hurts's biggest flaw was he was afraid to throw the ball when he should.
Jalen Milroe's biggest flaw is he's NOT afraid to throw the ball when he SHOULDN'T.

How in the Hell did Alabama of all teams get in this kind of predicament?
Four QBs on a roster and not one that the fans can really trust.

How is that even possible?


And spare me the Eeyore nonsense, folks.

I haven't been this resigned to a non-championship year since 2007.

And I HOPE - hope - I'm wrong.

The west is a mess this year. IF we can get past aTm this weekend the path is straightforward and totally doable to get to Atlanta.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

I'm not completely sure another loss means we are out of the CFP. Another loss doesn't remove us from SECW contention for sure and if we could run the rest of our SEC schedule and get to the SECCG and beat (an undefeated or one loss Georgia presumably) we'd still be strong contenders considering our other loss was to UT.

Technically it wouldn't, but we'd need everybody else to lose twice and look worse doing it .

The CFP has made their selection criteria crystal clear, not that there's anything wrong with it:
1) are you a Power 5 team?
2) how many losses do you have?
3) are you an undefeated G5 team?
4) do all other P5 teams have AT LEAST one loss?
5) did the G5 team beat any really good P5 teams to justify their inclusion?

If the answer to #1 is "yes" then #2 is the controlling factor.
If the answer to #1 is "no," you skip to question 3.

 

[selmaborntidefan]

But if the team "picked Milroe" to back that doesn't mean they wouldn't still make some mistakes. It just shows that even if they got the QB they want to play hardest for, we are still pretty flawed on that side of the ball.

If the team "picked Milroe" over the coach, it's time for a new head coach.

 

[spidermayin]

I keep hearing people reiterate that Simpson wasn't given chances. He's been given plenty of chances. How about all of the practices, scrimmages, and A day games? If he can't rise above the other competition so much that it leaves little doubt in the coaches mind who should be the starter, then what makes people think he's going to be so much better than Milroe at this point. I will agree he likely has a higher ceiling, but for some reason he's been hanging around the floor for too long and that floor is probably about the same level as what Milroe is doing right now.