4th and goal decision

Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

Half time momentum is overrated. We had the lead and lost, afor the 3rd time this year.

This is the way that I feel.

Based on our track record inside the red zone (this year), I understand why Shula went for the 3 points. But, was that really why we lost the game?

Our whole family agrees on one point - Shula is not utilizing the talent that he has down there.

Nuff said....
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I can't blame Shula for the call.

The way our team was playing at that point, it seemed like the right thing to do.

Who knew our Offense would be non-existent in the second half?
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I don't blame shula for the call. BUT, If he would Quit running between the tackles when he KNOWS that will only get 1/2 a yard and everytime we run to the outside we get six. Why do we continue to try the middle?
 
Re: You make the call....

Yes, I understand that we have taken three half-time leads on the road this year and have lost all three in the second half (so much for momentum at the half). It does not matter who leads at half-time, it matters who leads at the end of the game. Take some chances in the 1st half, we had really nothing to lose in that situation.

great post
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

You are up against a ranked team, on the road and usually suck in the 2nd half. Team is in your ear to go for it, defense wanted if anything to at least have them pinned at the 1 yard line.

GO FOR IT!

If you are relying on a kicking game to give you a win, you are dreaming. I was in a room full of Bama fans and I was the only one saying go for it. Made the 3-pt and everyone talked about momentum in the 2nd half at 6-3....give me a break. If anything they should feel good about stoping and holding us to a fg and having the ball first in the 2nd half. 10-3 is momentum...not 6-3.

I think the coaches wanted to go for it, but didn't know what play to call with the running game in tough shape.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I don't blame shula for the call. BUT, If he would Quit running between the tackles when he KNOWS that will only get 1/2 a yard and everytime we run to the outside we get six. Why do we continue to try the middle?

Dude, I agree.

Where are the sweeps, pitches, QB option, I keep yelling at Darby, but quickly realize there is a 5" hole to run thru.
 
Re: You make the call....

Momentum comes with any lead when a team is in hostile territory. If you don't realize that, you've never played/coached in a big-time atmosphere. Granted, it would not have been equal to the momentum of a 10-3 lead... but if UT stops us in that situation, they go into halftime feeling good about themselves... and we feel as if we wasted a scoring opportunity.

If we go for it maybe our offese comes off the field whether we score or not with the knowledge that there coach believes in them. I guarantee you when the offense was coming off the field they were thinking there coach didn't believe they could score or something to that effect. I believe alot of our problems in the RedZone is mental.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

Coach Shula made the correct call. This sounds pretty harsh, but in all honesty our team had done nothing at that point in the game to merit Shula's confidence. I'm fairly certain, based on the way our offensive line had been playing and the lack of success we'd had running the ball, that we would not convert a 4th and goal in that situation. You can say that it shows a lack of confidence in our players, etc. But the players have to earn that confidence by making plays. At that point in the game, we didn't look capable of picking up basically two full yards on fourth down against a stacked line of scrimmage. And I'm not trying to bash our players by any means. They went all-out yesterday and played as hard as they are humanly capable of playing. Fourth down and two against a stacked line of scrimmage close to the goal line is a tough, tough play for any team to execute.

Momentum is huge in college football, and particularly in games like this one. You have to think of this in the context of the situation. Going into the half with a lead instead of a tie on the road against the seventh-ranked team in the country is absolutely huge. If we come away with nothing in that situation, it swings the momentum dramatically in Tennessee's favor. Our offensive psyche appears so frail sometimes, I honestly believe that if we had come away with nothing in that situation, we might not have scored another point the entire game. It's easy to look back and say "Well, that was the difference in the game. It adds up. And we really didn't have anything to lose" but that's absolutely not the case. Shula played the percentages, which was the right call.
According to a lot of people here, momentum is a highly overrated thing. :wink: For those who don't believe that momentum at halftime is important, I must ask if you've ever played/coached on a big stage in at least HS or college ball. The "momentum thing" may not be much to our fans... but I can guarantee our team felt better about themselves going into the locker room with a lead than had we been stonedwalled and been tied... if you can't agree with that idea, I have to wonder about your objectivity... or lack of it.

The ONLY reason we are even discussing this idea today is because that play might have made the difference in the game Saturday. Had we won by 1, 2, or 3 points, the vast majority of us would have looked back and said, "Shula made a great call to take the points in that situation." Also, understand that his decision affected strategy towards the end of the game in the 4th. What would you rather have had... facing an 80-yard drive that HAD to result in a TD or facing a 50-60 yard drive where a FG could put us into overtime? It is very easy, considering the outcome, to overly criticize Shula for this decision. I'm not above criticizing Shula... and there was some weaknesses that could be seen in his coaching Saturday. However, some of you guys are making far too much of this situation... all based on hindsight... which Shula did not have at the time.
 
Re: You make the call....

If we go for it maybe our offese comes off the field whether we score or not with the knowledge that there coach believes in them. I guarantee you when the offense was coming off the field they were thinking there coach didn't believe they could score or something to that effect. I believe alot of our problems in the RedZone is mental.
As a former player and coach, I've been on both sides of the coin. First, as players on a team, you have to first gain the trust of the coaches... to a degree there must be some confidence going in... however, trust is earned in a tough game. Fact of the matter is that, up until this point in the game Saturday, our offense had not demonstrated they were capable of making that push. Also, go back and look at our toughest games this year and see how we did on 4th and 2 (or one and a half)... not a whole lot to establish trust upon. Players can whine all the time about "coaches don't put trust in us"... but the bottom line is that you have to show yourself worthy of trust to a great degree.

Second, from a coach's perspective, most of the time a coach's decision in a situation like this is determined on "feel of how the game has progressed." If that led Shula to his decision Saturday, he made the right one because the O hadn't shown it could move the LOS in that kind of situation. To be honest... what did you think when Castille got pushed out at the 8? My thought: "if SC didn't score 6 then, we're not going to get 6 with our offense playing like they are." You are absolutely correct... a lot of our problems in this area is mental. However, it's not totally being caused by our coaches.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

According to a lot of people here, momentum is a highly overrated thing. :wink: For those who don't believe that momentum at halftime is important, I must ask if you've ever played/coached on a big stage in at least HS or college ball. The "momentum thing" may not be much to our fans... but I can guarantee our team felt better about themselves going into the locker room with a lead than had we been stonedwalled and been tied... if you can't agree with that idea, I have to wonder about your objectivity... or lack of it.

The ONLY reason we are even discussing this idea today is because that play might have made the difference in the game Saturday. Had we won by 1, 2, or 3 points, the vast majority of us would have looked back and said, "Shula made a great call to take the points in that situation." Also, understand that his decision affected strategy towards the end of the game in the 4th. What would you rather have had... facing an 80-yard drive that HAD to result in a TD or facing a 50-60 yard drive where a FG could put us into overtime? It is very easy, considering the outcome, to overly criticize Shula for this decision. I'm not above criticizing Shula... and there was some weaknesses that could be seen in his coaching Saturday. However, some of you guys are making far too much of this situation... all based on hindsight... which Shula did not have at the time.

I have played in many football games in high school and at the d2 level and when you feel like the coach has lost confidence in you that takes a lot of wind out of your sails even Tim Castille said after the game "Maybe he has lost confidence in us"
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I have played in many football games in high school and at the d2 level and when you feel like the coach has lost confidence in you that takes a lot of wind out of your sails even Tim Castille said after the game "Maybe he has lost confidence in us"
It ought to take a lot of wind out of the sails. And... players who strive for excellence take the attitude of "I'm going to work harder to regain my coach's confidence" rather than wallow in misery. You want confidence as players... go out and earn it... don't expect it to be given when you haven't earned it.
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

I go back to the 3rd down play before we kicked the field goal. We were looking at a 3rd and long so you have two options. Either you go for the endzone on 3rd down and if it does not work you kick the field goal. Or you committ yourself to making it 4 down territory so you try and pick up yards underneath the coverage so you give yourself a manageable 4th down. Well we caught ut off guard with a run and make it 4th and 1, but then we kick the field goal. This is troubling to me and I think this shows that we do not have one vision in mind when it comes to our offense. I believe this is what is called having to many cooks in the kitchen. On defense we have one vision coming from Coach Kines and look at how well our defense does. What do you guys think?
 
Re: You make the call....(4th and goal)

Would you feel confident on 4th and a long 1 with these averages, in similar situations, coming into the game?

Yards per Carry: less than 1

Just for a little more clarity on Bama's success in this type of situation, Bama averages around 2 feet and 4 inches per carry!

Another point of clarity: there are no short TD runs to bring the average down. In other words, Bama is absolutely averaging less than 1 yard per carry with 1 or more yards to go for the TD.

I think that particular play on Saturday may have been the nail in the coffin for a certain position coach. Obviously, I have zero insider info on this, but how can you coach to win when your OL can only get 2 feet on a critical goal line play? That play showed Shula's total lack of confidence in a certain coach's position of responsibility.

I think, and thought, that Shula was being waaaaaaay too conservative on that call, but the conservative approach wasn't unfounded.
 
Consequences of the 4th and 1 decision?

I think Shula's choice of going for 3 points instead of a TD might be something that affects the team at least for the remainder of this season. To me,Shula was telling the offensive squad that he didn't think they were good enough to make the 1 yard for a TD. I don't see how his decision could do anything but decimate any confidence the offensive unit had in both their ability to move the ball and in Shula's coaching decisions. If a team lacks confidence in itself,it's not going to win the big games. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid Shula's "I don't think you guys can make 1 yard" decision will bite us in the butt down the road.
 
I go for it on 4th. If we were talking about last year, I kick the field goal for three reasons:

1) This isn't last year where I believe we were the favorite and unbeaten going into the game. We came into this game 11 points dogs and I think when the perception is that you'll get beat that badly, you have to take the chance to go up.

2) We weren't playing at BDS. At some point you have to make a statement to take the crowd and momentum away from UT. This could've been a huge turning point in the game whether we got it or not by saying "we're here to man up and beat you."

3) If we don't get it, UT is on their own 1 yard line with a less than impressive running game and a QB that was rattled into throwing 3 picks in the first half. I'd take my chances with that.

I don't mind Shula making the call that he did as it did give us the lead, but I would've done it differently.
 
I tell you as a VOL fan that I was hoping bama went for it. I knew that the only chance we had to keep you from getting the lead was if you did go for it. We were going to be down 3 or seven. At the time I didn't mind because we had much more to gain by bama going for it and not getting it than bama did going for it and getting it. If bama went for it and got it the momentum change would have been huge. If bama went for it and got it, well it would have been a well they were on the 1 so no big deal. Now hindsite is 20/20 and 4 points was huge. I think he made the right call for the time. I think most coaches you talk to would agree at the time. You gotta take the points in a game like that.
 
It was a long yard more like four feet. I didn't have the confidence to say go for the TD either. Tennessee would more than likely stopped us short of the goal line. I agree with the FG.
 
I guess I'll chime in with my 2 cents. I think as an underdog on the road, you have to take a few calculated risks. It's true that our running game, especially between the tackles and inside the 5 yd line, has been suspect. But, what better opportunity do you get than from 1 yard away? And, no one's forcing us to call a run play. Why not run the play that worked in OT against both Arkansas and Ole Miss? Fake up the middle to Castille, and hit the quick pass to the TE or LeRon?

With the way our defense was playing, I think even if we didn't get the TD, we would probably have forced a 3-and-out and potentially even a safety.
 
Advertisement

Trending content

Advertisement

Latest threads