Border thread part II

Again, it ain't just a river in Egypt.
So you don't believe the numbers have been reduced since Trump took office? Or do you not believe Biden had the same presidential powers that Trump has had in his two terms?

Since the numbers presented are from border patrol, do you have numbers that counter them?

Or is your argument simply TDS-based sarcasm?
 
Among the many lies, falsehoods, half-truths, misdirections that the MAGAs ate up like gummy bears in the SOTU, he forgot about this inconvenient truth:: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/co...ecurity-bill-campaign-border-chaos-rcna153607

Republicans blocked the bipartisan border bill last year. Only to blame Biden for doing nothing about the border.
The bill included a supplemental aid package requested by President Joe Biden for foreign conflicts, which would have appropriated $60 billion for Ukraine, $14 billion for Israel and $10 billion for humanitarian aid, including in Gaza. On top of that, it didn't really look to slow down border crossings if border shut-downs only went into effect if we were averaging 5,000 crossings per week. This is why this silly legislation failed. Contrast those numbers with what we are seeing today.
 
The bill included a supplemental aid package requested by President Joe Biden for foreign conflicts, which would have appropriated $60 billion for Ukraine, $14 billion for Israel and $10 billion for humanitarian aid, including in Gaza. On top of that, it didn't really look to slow down border crossings if border shut-downs only went into effect if we were averaging 5,000 crossings per week. This is why this silly legislation failed. Contrast those numbers with what we are seeing today.

It's almost as if the party that really, really likes, encourages, shelters, and pays for illegal immigrants* wasn't serious about enforcing laws against ... (checks notes) ... illegal immigration. :unsure:


*Except for the illegals who arrived at places like Martha's Vineyard. They were shipped right back out PDQ. Funny how that works.
 
It's almost as if the party that really, really likes, encourages, shelters, and pays for illegal immigrants* wasn't serious about enforcing laws against ... (checks notes) ... illegal immigration. :unsure:


*Except for the illegals who arrived at places like Martha's Vineyard. They were shipped right back out PDQ. Funny how that works.

And those immigrants were all rapists, con artists, murderers, drug dealers, and escapees from insane asylums. Except for those we want to offer gold cards to, the job creators.
 
The bill included a supplemental aid package requested by President Joe Biden for foreign conflicts, which would have appropriated $60 billion for Ukraine, $14 billion for Israel and $10 billion for humanitarian aid, including in Gaza. On top of that, it didn't really look to slow down border crossings if border shut-downs only went into effect if we were averaging 5,000 crossings per week. This is why this silly legislation failed. Contrast those numbers with what we are seeing today.

No, the bill failed because the convicted felon strong-armed Republicans during an election year. Because it was geared to make the false accusation that the Biden Admin cared nothing about the border.
 
No, the bill failed because the convicted felon strong-armed Republicans during an election year. Because it was geared to make the false accusation that the Biden Admin cared nothing about the border.
Nonsense, when it was first proposed it became glaringly apparent what this stupid bill really is. I distinctly remember talking with friends and colleagues about it and we all agreed it was more phony nonsense like the Inflation Reduction Act. The people were voicing their displeasure to their representatives over this, so while I'm sure Trump's opposition did play a role, it also became apparent that a lot of our leadership were having to listen to keep their careers alive.
 
Republicans blocked the bipartisan border bill last year. Only to blame Biden for doing nothing about the border.

Look, I'm no Trump fan, but whom exactly is being disingenuous here (referring to the political parties, not to you)?

1) Biden threw the border wide open by executive order less than two weeks into office.
2) A bunch of Democrats declared their cities to be "sanctuary cities"
3) People flooded across the border
4) Republicans took up Democrats on their offer to sanctuary these folks, only to watch Democrats pull the "wait a minute, there's too many of these folks" (which Reps had told them, but they're bigots, so they must also be liars)
5) Biden then - IN FEBRUARY 2024, an election year - throws in $20 billion in emergency spending throwing money at Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan - and NOT ONLY REPUBLICANS but also progressives (aka liberals ashamed of the word "liberal") throw a hissy fit, liberals saying this would take us back to Trump.

YES - Trump DID tell the Republicans to reject the border bill. That part is true.

On the other hand, Biden himself created a problem and then tried the political slick tactic of calling in the other party to try and remove an issue that was going to destroy him in the election, figuring he couldn't lose. If they didn't help him, he could blame them, if they DID, he could claim credit for being a leader and solving the very problem he created.

Pretending this whole affair began when "the Republicans followed in lockstep at Trump's order" is laughable on its face.

Remember when the Democrats bailed out the Republicans on the Speaker vote, figuring the guy they had was better than the guy who was gonna replace him? You probably don't, because it never happened. What did the Democrats say? "It isn't our job to solve a problem they created for themselves."

Funny how many people forget that key point when it comes to the border.

Let me be clear: a "wall" is an insanely stupid idea for a couple of dozen reasons, and even the conservative Cato Institute has pointed out problems with the concept of a "wall" for years.

But Biden created this problem all on his own and then decided to call in a team of his political opponents to bail him out. Donald Trump was not the only one playing politics with the border.
 
It's pretty obvious by now that the fringe elements of either party who have somehow wrested control of their respective parties have no concept of how to govern the country...
 
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It's pretty obvious by now that the fringe elements of either party who have somehow wrested control of their respective parties have no concept of how to govern the country...
To be fair, the establishment doesn't either. The fringe elements are annoying, but they aren't responsible for the ball-busting level of debt we are currently in. They didn't provoke Russia into attacking Ukraine. They certainly haven't created a health care crisis that allows us to get screwed in two directions by either the insurance companies or the medical establishment charging $600 for a bag of saline. Nope, we can thank the good ole Uniparty for all of this.
 
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No, the bill failed because the convicted felon strong-armed Republicans during an election year. Because it was geared to make the false accusation that the Biden Admin cared nothing about the border.
Regardless, Trump proved what we already knew - the bill wasn't necessary to curb illegal immigration. Biden (or maybe his handlers) didn't care enough to stop it.
 
It's pretty obvious by now that the fringe elements of either party who have somehow wrested control of their respective parties have no concept of how to govern the country...

And for that, we can thank the 1968 Democratic national convention and the reforms of the McGovern-Fraser commission coming out of that, which gave us the modern system. (at that time, Democrats were about 54% of the national electorate and controlled enough states that a number of these reforms that happened involved STATE LAWS regarding elections).

There were always fringe elements in both of the parties, but because the nominating conventions controlled who the nominee was, there was a lot of what they used to call horse trading to tally the number of delegate votes necessary to win the nomination. Now to be fair, I don’t for one second think that that is what the radicals at that convention intended to happen. I think it was a case of youthful idealism running up against reality. And even the old system gave us such disgusting individuals as Woodrow Wilson and Warren Harding.

But requiring a substantial number of the delegates being elected in state competitions, whether caucuses or primaries, was walking into a disaster from which we have never recovered. People whose lives are activism, whether on the left or on the right, have long dominated those elections, and the net result is a long list of radical promises in hopes of winning a nomination, but still being viable in a general election.

Donald Trump never would have been chosen by the Republican Party under the old system. Neither would George McGovern, Jimmy Carter, or Hillary Clinton. It is highly unlikely Michael Dukakis would also not be chosen. It is even debatable whether Ronald Reagan, who was considered an extremist when he ran, could have gained enough votes to win the nomination in either 1976 or 1980. Barack Obama, I don't know, because he had the asset of almost no previous voting record plus Illinois combined with the (then presumed) liability of his race.

Furthermore, every single time a party lost the Presidential election, they began making changes that didn't involve THEM having to change all that much. The Democrats made a bunch of changes because they lost 5 of 6 elections, including two 49-1 blowouts. Forced to accept Carter, they wrote the "peer review" of super delegates into the 1984 primaries, basically to ensure either Mondale or Teddy Kennedy won the nomination (the Hunt Commission). They bowed the knee to Jesse Jackson's whining about "but I got X percent of the votes and only 1/8X% of the delegates", which still affects their nominations today. The Republicans, deciding they somehow lost in 1992 because of the long distance from the first primary (Feb) to the last (June), stacked the contests, and the Democrats stacked them even more in 2004, opting for "let's get this settled early so we can focus on the fall election", which is part of why elections drone on forever now. There used to be a "let's wait and see who wins Wisconsin" element to it all, but no more.

I understand it was done in the name and with the goal (idealistic though it may have been) of "let's let the PEOPLE decide," but the effects of it were and are disastrous in both parties at times. Pat Buchanan winning early in 1996 was a terrifying reality; and lost in all of the "we purged our party of the racists" is the fact that on the morning after his shooting in 1972, George Wallace had about a million more votes than any Democratic competitor but only a fraction of the delegates (amazingly, nobody in his party was whining about fair distribution then).

Again to be fair - the Democrats have gotten better on this as time went by, the GOP has gotten worse.
 
Selma, the breadth of your knowledge on so many topics is mind blowing to me... thank you.

Thank you for your polite words.

Sadly, I spend much of my life frustrated, knowing how much I don’t know. I think your reach an age which you just accept that that is reality, which I have, but it frustrated me for many years. I try to make it a point to learn something new that I did not know every day, but I don’t succeed at that very well, either.

Once upon a time, politics really did interest me so I did a ton of reading of behind the scenes situations and history. But even the story of most political things is slanted by the author’s perspective. And my suspicious nature of just not automatically believing what I’m told kicks in at times. This has been both liberating and frustrating from time to time. Day after day, I have to refrain from zing people on here because I really do learn things on this board and smashing on folks is not the best way to learn things, to say nothing of the fact the board standards have been elevated back to what they were a decade ago more recently. To be fair to everyone, I think a lot of it stems from Trump, either pro or con, which only sort of proves the mantra that he destroys everything he touches.

One thing I have learned: I am far less impressed by PhD. degrees than I was even a decade ago, and I say this as someone who wanted to complete that route, it just was not economically feasible for the lack of payoff. Hint: too many “historians” insert their interpretation of events in line with their ideology into too many happenings, and then they call their opinions “historical facts.” in most cases, there isn’t all that much difference between a loosely connected conspiracy theory, and what is alleged to be a pattern of behavior.

In all honesty, do you know where this started? Of course you don’t, you don’t live in what passes for my brain, LOL! Getting in trouble failing to turn in a book report in the fifth grade and the butt chewing my father gave me about the importance of reading - and his personally requiring me to read more than twice as much as was the minimal necessary for book reports and classes - was probably the turning point. He allowed me to read only aboutSports (at the start), but once I developed interest in other subjects, of course, I spent all of my time reading those.

Right now, I have a library full of books that I have probably not read more than I have read because every time the subject interests me, and I find a book that’s usually $40 that is on clearance for three dollars, I pick it up and take it home.

Sometimes, I even remember to pay for it.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Again, thank you for your kind words, and I will say without reservation that I have learned more about more subjects on this board than I have on any other Internet board up on which I’ve posted in the last 25 years.
 
No, the bill failed because the convicted felon strong-armed Republicans during an election year. Because it was geared to make the false accusation that the Biden Admin cared nothing about the border.

I suggest you read Selma's response as it states things very well.

I will also add this.....

Turns out we didn't need a new bill.....we just needed a new president.
 
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